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Thread: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

  1. #21

    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    The writer was pretty assumptive of his opinions concerning the Raynor Kerrigan storyline.

    Unless the guy has a crystal ball, he doesn't know what will happen between these two characters in the next two expansions. I for one, still believe that Raynor is going to kill Kerrigan at some point.

    Wasn't there some talk from Blizz that HotS would be RPGish in nature, where the main focus would be to enhance Kerrigan's abilities and influence over the Swarm.

    I know that she is supposedly going to be some kind of savior...but if she has to become more zerg-like again...maybe she will...in the end...become corrupted by the Swarm once more. If that is the case, Raynor and Co. may have to finally kill her off...to save her...from herself.


  2. #22

    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Then that has to do with the Protoss' resistance to change, and therefore fanaticism, like peasant said. Those aren't examples of "barely contained rage" or "deep regret/shame". Those things just seem like fancy phrases from the DT Saga that the OP was throwing around.
    Well, he says later on, that he hasn't read any of the books. And I don't see how the Protoss resistance to change doesn't directly follow their fear of themselves and their former history; Aeon of Strife, DTs exiled to Shakuras.
    (I haven't read any SC book myself, so sorry for the use of lore taken from there if I have done so.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    The complaint was that it's poorly written. The guy elaborates on this: there was zero prophecy in SC, and that's because it wouldn't make any sense that the coming of the Zerg was foretold. Who foretold the coming exactly, and if it was foretold why was everyone so surprised? It just seems like a bunch of nonsense.
    ^Agree.
    - "Man is Matter" -
    Joseph Heller - Catch 22

    - "Marines are Goo" -
    BusinessMonkey - SC:Legacy

  3. #23

    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    The thing is with the storyline, yes it wasn't great, there are plotholes and characters weren't fully fleshed out. Again, this is Part 1 of 3. We've got two more games where these characters will continue to grow and the plot will be expanded upon. It's frankly irrational to expect everything to be thrown out into the open right off the bat. Yes, the storytelling wasn't as good as it could have been, but you do have to remember this is only chapter one. You can't judge a trilogy's story based on the first part alone.

    Who controlled the Overmind, why, what is the Dark Voice, who foretold this prophecy, will Kerrigan turn good again, etc, will be answered in the other two games. It's like complaining that Episode I of the original Starcraft didn't explore the Protoss and Zerg races. It wasn't meant to, the story wasn't about the Protoss or Zerg, it was about the Terrans, specifically Raynor and to lesser extents Mengsk and Kerrigan. In the same way, WoL followed Raynor and his battle against Mengsk and his conflicting feelings about Kerrigan. We didn't get a lot of development about the overarcing plot of the trilogy where the Overmind and prophecy and Xel'Naga are concerned because that wasn't the focus of the campaign. Yes, the Zeratul missions could have had more impact on the campaign, but otherwise Raynor's story is in no way connected to the story of the Overmind and the Xel'Naga, at least not yet.

    Did WoL have plot holes? Yes. Will they be filled it by later games? I would hope so, if not then I will gladly join in the complaining. Was the story disjointed? Yes, quite a bit, the idea to do what missions you like whenever was nice but the story between missions was rather poor. Were some of the characters mis-portrayed? Yes, like Zeratul becoming Captain Obvious. Were some characters shallow? Well yes, but like I said we've got two more games for them to be explored deeper. I'm not saying WoL's story was perfect, it was flawed. I'm saying I'm holding off denouncing it as a horrible mess until the story is finished in HotS and LotV.
    Last edited by Drake Clawfang; 08-24-2010 at 01:39 PM.
    SC2 handle - "DrakeyC, code 929"

    I ARE A PROPHET! I've predicted three major aspects of SC2 correct, more or less.

    June 2007 - I predicted the Protoss campaign would give you new tech as you conducted diplomacy among tribes.

    Hidden Content:
    July 18th 2010 - I predicted Raynor would broadcast information of Mengsk's actions on Tarsonis to discredit him and incite rebellion.


    Hidden Content:
    June 16th 2010 I predicted the Voice in the Darkness was the commanding force behind the Hybrids. I'm calling it half-right.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang View Post
    Yes, the Zeratul missions could have had more impact on the campaign, but otherwise Raynor's story is in no way connected to the story of the Overmind and the Xel'Naga, at least not yet.
    Then why even start it in WoL? To give us a taste? It's not a taste it's a cliffhanger, and they specifically stated they wouldn't give us cliffhangers.

    Only reason it's there is to make Raynor go after Kerrigan, and if that's so important then they should have thinned out the tsunami of other goals to the campaign and the people around Raynor. There are just too many. Like going against Mengsk only to being forced to join him later on, getting some money from the mysterious artifacts nobody knows anything about (yet those missions don't pay you MORE than other missions), saving colonists out of the blue, going after valuable minerals which either helps you get yet another unit from the sea of units in SP or kill off the guy who made you go after them in the first place and not get anything out of the valuable minerals in the end.)

    ...sigh
    - "Man is Matter" -
    Joseph Heller - Catch 22

    - "Marines are Goo" -
    BusinessMonkey - SC:Legacy

  5. #25

    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    Quote Originally Posted by BusinessMonkey View Post
    Then why even start it in WoL? To give us a taste? It's not a taste it's a cliffhanger, and they specifically stated they wouldn't give us cliffhangers.
    Blizzard also said the Dragoon and Reaver would be in the campaign editor, early hints indicated we'd return to Mar Sara, and let's not forget that the mission on Jotun where you get Vikings to retrieve an artifact never happen.

    So Blizzard lies/changes their minds. Sue them.

    Like going against Mengsk only to being forced to join him later on,
    BZT.

    Wrong, he allies with Valerian, not Arcuturus. Not the same thing.

    getting some money from the mysterious artifacts nobody knows anything about (yet those missions don't pay you MORE than other missions), saving colonists out of the blue, going after valuable minerals which either helps you get yet another unit from the sea of units in SP or kill off the guy who made you go after them in the first place and not get anything out of the valuable minerals in the end.)

    ...sigh
    See, all the things you said there were *optional*. Do not treat the campaign as if you *have* to do the Tosh and Hanson missions because as far as I know, you don't. With the exception of the Hanson missions giving you Vikings and Tosh's giving you Goliaths, you aren't missing much but a few research points and some cash if you skip them and focus on the Tychus and Horner missions which are the backbone of the overarcing story. And if you miss out on Vikings and Goliaths, no big deal, you just need to compensate by using other unit combinations more.

    You don't get to complain about having too many goals in the story when you don't need to pursue all of them and choose to do so anyway. It's the choices you make as a player, and if you choose to do every mission that is your decision, the game does not force you to play them. Its like playing a Pokemon game and complaining filling out the Pokedex takes a long time - too bad, the game doesn't require it of you, you made the choice to try on your own.

    You are Raynor, you make the choices, and if you want to do the optional missions or not is up to you. But don't *do* these optional missions that, as optional will naturally have little if any impact on the overarcing story, and then complain about them. So if you feel the Tosh and Hanson missions are distractions from the main storyline, there's a simple solution - don't do them!
    Last edited by Drake Clawfang; 08-24-2010 at 02:00 PM.
    SC2 handle - "DrakeyC, code 929"

    I ARE A PROPHET! I've predicted three major aspects of SC2 correct, more or less.

    June 2007 - I predicted the Protoss campaign would give you new tech as you conducted diplomacy among tribes.

    Hidden Content:
    July 18th 2010 - I predicted Raynor would broadcast information of Mengsk's actions on Tarsonis to discredit him and incite rebellion.


    Hidden Content:
    June 16th 2010 I predicted the Voice in the Darkness was the commanding force behind the Hybrids. I'm calling it half-right.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    Quote Originally Posted by GRUNT View Post
    I didn't read beyond the first couple paragraphs on the Overmind, because I think this guy is seriously misinformed . I believe that the Dark Voice put that 'directive' into the Overmind in order to destroy the Xel'Naga, not that the Xel'Naga were the ones enslaving the overmind .
    He thinks the Dark Voice is a Xel'Naga because only they were around when the Overmind was created i.e. "the overmind was formed with thought & reason, but not free will"

    But yes, I agree.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang View Post
    Blizzard also said the Dragoon and Reaver would be in the campaign editor, early hints indicated we'd return to Mar Sara, and let's not forget that the mission on Jotun where you get Vikings to retrieve an artifact never happen.

    So Blizzard lies/changes their minds. Sue them.
    This is not changing small elements of the game during production, it's saying we have decided to take this game this way, and then not doing it even though they still make use of the argument.
    If advising to buy unittypes didn't work in final game fine, but don't come tell me that creating better storytelling for SC2 also wouldn't work in the final game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang View Post
    BZT.

    Wrong, he allies with Valerian, not Arcuturus. Not the same thing.
    And agrees to attack Char with half of his other enemies fleet, without any kind of plot or subplot forcing him to do so. He ends up going there killing millions of people to... save his love. What a manic-depressive, egoistic prick Raynor suddenly becomes at the end of the campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang View Post
    See, all the things you said there were *optional*. Do not treat the campaign as if you *have* to do the Tosh and Hanson missions because as far as I know, you don't. With the exception of the Hanson missions giving you Vikings and Tosh's giving you Goliaths, you aren't missing much but a few research points and some cash if you skip them and focus on the Tychus and Horner missions which are the backbone of the overarcing story. And if you miss out on Vikings and Goliaths, no big deal, you just need to compensate by using other unit combinations more.

    You don't get to complain about having too many goals in the story when you don't need to pursue all of them and choose to do so anyway. It's the choices you make as a player, and if you choose to do every mission that is your decision, the game does not force you to play them. Its like playing a Pokemon game and complaining filling out the Pokedex takes a long time - too bad, the game doesn't require it of you, you made the choice to try on your own.

    You are Raynor, you make the choices, and if you want to do the optional missions or not is up to you. But don't *do* these optional missions that, as optional will naturally have little if any impact on the overarcing story, and then complain about them. So if you feel the Tosh and Hanson missions are distractions from the main storyline, there's a simple solution - don't do them!
    Oh, yeah. As if I'm going to play LESS of an already diminished game. What about I make a game consisting purely of 2 "forced" missions and the rest is optional, I can then just cover my lazy ass behind the argument you just presented.
    - "Man is Matter" -
    Joseph Heller - Catch 22

    - "Marines are Goo" -
    BusinessMonkey - SC:Legacy

  8. #28

    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    Quote Originally Posted by BusinessMonkey View Post
    And agrees to attack Char with half of his other enemies fleet, without any kind of plot or subplot forcing him to do so. He ends up going there killing millions of people to... save his love. What a manic-depressive, egoistic prick Raynor suddenly becomes at the end of the campaign.
    I have nothing to say to that since it completely ignores the original claim - your claim that he allied with Mengsk. Although I'm curious as to where the "killing millions of people" comes from. I know the Dominion consists of billions, but I doubt that half their armed forces numbers in the millions or else by all accounts they would have kicked Kerrigan's ass.

    Oh, yeah. As if I'm going to play LESS of an already diminished game. What about I make a game consisting purely of 2 "forced" missions and the rest is optional, I can then just cover my lazy ass behind the argument you just presented.
    It's a more competent argument than the non-existent counter-argument you just gave. You exaggerate the claim into something completely different and layer it in sarcasm. If you can't rebuttal my argument properly then don't reply.
    SC2 handle - "DrakeyC, code 929"

    I ARE A PROPHET! I've predicted three major aspects of SC2 correct, more or less.

    June 2007 - I predicted the Protoss campaign would give you new tech as you conducted diplomacy among tribes.

    Hidden Content:
    July 18th 2010 - I predicted Raynor would broadcast information of Mengsk's actions on Tarsonis to discredit him and incite rebellion.


    Hidden Content:
    June 16th 2010 I predicted the Voice in the Darkness was the commanding force behind the Hybrids. I'm calling it half-right.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang View Post
    I have nothing to say to that since it completely ignores the original claim - your claim that he allied with Mengsk. Although I'm curious as to where the "killing millions of people" comes from. I know the Dominion consists of billions, but I doubt that half their armed forces numbers in the millions or else by all accounts they would have kicked Kerrigan's ass.
    What? Even Angus Mengsk had his own army in the millions. The Dominion should have an army way larger than that.

    Plus, half the fleet doesn't mean half the entire military, and you are also forgetting that there are over ten billion Zerg on char alone. We don't know how many attacked the Dominion held worlds but there was still a large amount of Zerg on Char, so if your saying they aren't even in the millions, that is ludicrous.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Fantastic Critique on Starcraft 2 forums

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Archon View Post
    What? Even Angus Mengsk had his own army in the millions. The Dominion should have an army way larger than that.

    Plus, half the fleet doesn't mean half the entire military, and you are also forgetting that there are over ten billion Zerg on char alone. We don't know how many attacked the Dominion held worlds but there was still a large amount of Zerg on Char, so if your saying they aren't even in the millions, that is ludicrous.
    True, true. My bad then. SC's universe seems to have a really warped-scale in regards to population values.
    SC2 handle - "DrakeyC, code 929"

    I ARE A PROPHET! I've predicted three major aspects of SC2 correct, more or less.

    June 2007 - I predicted the Protoss campaign would give you new tech as you conducted diplomacy among tribes.

    Hidden Content:
    July 18th 2010 - I predicted Raynor would broadcast information of Mengsk's actions on Tarsonis to discredit him and incite rebellion.


    Hidden Content:
    June 16th 2010 I predicted the Voice in the Darkness was the commanding force behind the Hybrids. I'm calling it half-right.

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