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Thread: [Game balancing ideas, new units and new race]

  1. #21

    Default Re: [Game balancing ideas, new units and new race]

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang View Post
    The unit or the user?
    Both

  2. #22

    Default Re: [Game balancing ideas, new units and new race]

    People are just scared of a 4th multiplayer race. RELAX. its blizzard thats making the game, if there is possible 4th race, it is assured its the best thing that could happen in sc. its just like making the game in 3d.

    Also, xelnaga or UED can be new multiplayer races in sc. Yes they are OP lorewise but we are talking about multiplayer battle here or SKIRMISHES battles. It's not like the 3 original races cannot beat the xelnaga and UED in random battles and those are the multiplayer are all about.

    Here, a mass marine can still defeat a top tier super xelnaga unit. And a battlecruiser can easily pwn a xelnaga infantry unit. No xelnaga imba there? This is multiplayer, it doesn't mean that if you beat a xelanaga race in multiplayer makes them appear weak already, lorewise the equivalent of it is just the random battles and not the final conclusion of the war.
    Last edited by electricmole; 08-17-2010 at 08:01 PM.

  3. #23
    dustinbrowder's Avatar Banned
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    Default Re: [Game balancing ideas, new units and new race]

    Quote Originally Posted by MulletBen View Post
    Yeah, I'd call that confirmed. They'd never add a 4th race...

    [/sarcasm]
    Its not like they are not going to add a 4th race, its going to happen eventually, SC3 if it has to, but they are not going to add a 4th multiplayer race. It would be just ridiculous to balance.

    And other RTS may have had 4,5 or even 6 races, but they are all fundamentally the same.
    Same stats, same role, different skin, that's it.

    In starcraft, what stats would a tier 1 xel'naga unit have? 30 damage and 200HP?
    What would the strongest unit stats than be? 100 damage and 1000HP ?

  4. #24

    Default Re: [Game balancing ideas, new units and new race]

    Quote Originally Posted by dustinbrowder View Post
    Its not like they are not going to add a 4th race, its going to happen eventually, SC3 if it has to, but they are not going to add a 4th multiplayer race. It would be just ridiculous to balance.

    And other RTS may have had 4,5 or even 6 races, but they are all fundamentally the same.
    Same stats, same role, different skin, that's it.

    In starcraft, what stats would a tier 1 xel'naga unit have? 30 damage and 200HP?
    What would the strongest unit stats than be? 100 damage and 1000HP ?
    I still don't get why everyone thinks a Xel'Naga unit in Multiplayer gameplay would have to have high stats...Why not have a ranged GTG, 100 HP, 20 shield unit that deals 10 damage, for example? Why the need to have it be OP or imbalanced?

    The argument is basically "If they do Xel'Naga their units would have to be stronger than the other races' so they can't make them in MP".

    That assumes that the X'N units need to be uber. They don't.
    Last edited by Alex06; 08-17-2010 at 10:44 PM.

    Kudos to Arkceangel for the Terran avatar and sig!

  5. #25
    Hunter's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: [Game balancing ideas, new units and new race]

    My wife recently informed me that SC2 lacked a cute fuzzy race, not sure most people would appreciate that though.

  6. #26

    Default Re: [Game balancing ideas, new units and new race]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    My wife recently informed me that SC2 lacked a cute fuzzy race, not sure most people would appreciate that though.
    That's because it doesn't fit with StarCraft's art style and universe in general. StarCraft is about serious, ugly, dirty/gritty sci-fi warfare. WarCraft is not as serious, so that game universe can have Murlocs and Faerie Dragons and what not.

    Not like saying that non-OP and multiplayer-playable X'N don't make sense in-universe. Protoss High Templar are weak in-game yet they're some of the most powerful psi wielders in the game's universe. They should be probably neary as powerful as Kerrigan is in the last campaign mission. Dark Templar and Zealots should be super-quick and strike swiftly, kill in one shot, fight really fast and be untargetable, like Zeratul is in the cinematic against Kerrigan. Ghosts should be able to snipe and one hit kill any infantry that way, Hydras and Roaches included. Protoss should be able to incinerate a planet from space. Terrans should be able to call in Drop Pod reinforcements off-world. Melee units should be able to insta-kill and Marines should not do damage but insta-kill units and have a large miss rate if the units are moving. There should also be a cover mechanic. But let's face it, that would not be balanced nor would it cater to the competitive style of play that SC currently has or that it has had since SC1/BW. That is not how SC plays. It's all about balance, so you don't see these things in-game. So if we'd see X'N, they wouldn't be like that either (gameplay does not always cater to perfect realism). Especially since they're supposedly "good guys", X'N can't be OP as they would either help the player or be the player's race in the campaign for a while. OP units that can own anything in any mission? I liked the Korhal mission, but I don't want to have the equivalent of 10 Odins in no time and be able to beat the map with no effort on brutal and not be able to appreciate strategy and the game in story mode...Might as well make a movie rather than a video game, then.

    Besides, the Zerg are the "cute and fuzzy", in a sense.
    Last edited by Alex06; 08-17-2010 at 11:01 PM.

    Kudos to Arkceangel for the Terran avatar and sig!

  7. #27
    Aznargo's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: [Game balancing ideas, new units and new race]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
    My wife recently informed me that SC2 lacked a cute fuzzy race, not sure most people would appreciate that though.
    I'm sure that would attract more GIRLZ into play SC2.

    Also
    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang View Post
    Hidden Content:
    The unit or the user?



    That is plain wrong. You say the Thor makes Siege Tanks useless? You are plain wrong.



    Except it does not.



    The Thor never compromised that stance. This is simply, a stupid idea. You want to make Siege Tanks mobile and make the Thor into a glorified dropship for them. No.



    Do the Terrans really need more counters for Zerglings and Zealots? Do they really need another cliff-jumping unit?



    No.



    Meaning you want to give it Restore. That'd be alright I suppose.



    Um...what? That makes no sense, I'm trying to make sense of it. Basically, you want to make a burrowing siege unit that does no damage but paralyzes other units? Um.......no. Again, a simple "no".




    The new Thor is stupid. The Colossus? The Zerg already have the perfect counter for it - air units.



    The chain-lightning bonus dmg versus armored sounds alright. But the bug-HP mechanic is way too micro-intensive and complex.



    If you're having problems with Colossus and Siege Tanks, again - air units. Besides that, the Colossus and Siege Tank do such high damage I doubt 20 HP will make much of a difference against them.



    Um...just, why?






    If you can get an infestor right up next to an enemy building producing a unit without the opponent knowing, you can sneak a pack of roaches into their base just as easily and do a lot more damage. Also, no ability is worth 200 energy. At all. For that cost I'll create 8 Infested Terrans that'll do far more havoc than the one single unit I'm getting for this ability.



    Don't see much use for this, 10% is nothing. That means like, if you use it on a building that's making a Thor, you get 30 Minerals and 20 Gas. That's really not much.



    Once again, I have to simply say - no.



    Any unit with only 20-30 HP will not last long enough to do anything significant. That's even more fragile than a Zergling. No way the thing will get into the opponent's base alive, unless your opponent is stupid.



    Again, why? Why do we need this ability, what does this do practically?



    If you manage your prism drops properly this won't be a problem.



    So Terrans rely solely on Thors and Siege Tanks for their offensive while the other units protect them? A thousand times over - no.



    I'm not reading anything under this line. No 4th races. Period, end of transmission, discussion over.

    Simply put these are almost all horrible, horrible ideas. I don't want to be mean but I will be honest - they suck. Big time.
    Some of your responses made me crack up .

    Adun Toridas!
    Current Status - The Worst SC2 Player of All Time

  8. #28

    Default Re: [Game balancing ideas, new units and new race]

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex06 View Post
    For the Siege argument from WC3...That's not a good one. All races in SC2 have siege units and "bombers". Banshees, Brood Lords and Void Rays for bombers, Thors, Siege Tanks, Immortals, Colossi and Ultralisks as siege units. The only difference for the Ultralisk is it's a melee unit. That means a simple gimmick or change to a unit can change its uniqueness. If I were to do that to the WC3 siege units, the races could be more unique. Even then, those units do not have the same stats and do not work exactly the same way and aren't exactly in the same place in the tech tree. C&C3 (not KW) also has uniqueness in all 3 of its factions, even though they all have a Tier 3 "tank" unit and a Tier 1 tank.

    What you don't seem to get is that IF they add a 4th race, they will NOT add the Hybrid Destroyer in the game necessarily. The 4th race doesn't even need to be the Hybrids.

    What you're saying makes no sense. Protoss would own Terrans realistically, and they could burn planets to get rid of Zerg. Zerg could swarm Terrans and kill them realistically. Yet you don't exactly see that in the game. It's in the storyline, ok, but NOT in the actual gameplay. For all we know the Protoss could go to Korhal and Char and just purify both worlds and be done with all of this...Yet you don't see them do that, because this is a game, and a story has to be told and battles have to be balanced for each faction. So if they add a fourth race, it WILL be balanced and not completely overpowered, as the races HAVE to be balanced with each other. Let's face it, Zerg could destroy every Terran presence in the Koprulu Sector if they assaulted Korhal first. Just like how Terrans beat them up because they stroke Char by surprise and everything, even though normally in force comparison, the Zerg would utterly annihilate the Terrans.

    Besides, units like the Hybrid Destroyer, if it EVER made its way into the game, would be available at Tier 3. Why should it absolutely be a Tier 1 unit? What you're saying makes no sense. It's as if I'd go about making a game about medieval aliens vs high tech humans, and you'd be like "Oh of course high tech humans will be OP". NOT IF BY GAME DESIGN THEY'RE BALANCED NOT TO BE OP.

    Your argument makes no sense at all. You're assuming that they will add Hybrids as a fourth race, you're assuming that the Hybrid Destroyer would be one of their units, that it would have the stats it has in the campaign and that it would be a Tier 1 unit. THERE'S NO RULE SAYING THAT IT HAS TO BE SO. If Blizzard wants to, they can lower the HP, damage, and make it a late tier, high cost unit.

    I'm not saying I am FOR a fourth race, but you're definitely not making good arguments against it. Do you fear it may actually be possible for Blizzard to add a fourth race? I feel that's how you guys are. OMG NO THEY CAN'T DO THAT THEY NEVER WILL!1!!1!!!1111one!!! You aren't open to the possibility that they just might. If you want to prove your point, make a good argument. If your point has no good argument, it is invalid.


    First of all, you all seem close-minded. "4th race is stupid. plz stop." You just don't like the ideas or how it's portrayed. If someone made a UED race, or if you made your own UED race, you'd be all like "See, this is possible, this makes sense, this would work in the game, etc. etc.", and other people would probably not agree with you.
    My patch notes were an obvious joke. What part did you not get about Thors/Archons/Ultras as tier1? It was a blunt joke to prove a point.


    My arguments are fine, you just lack reading comprehension. The siege units in Wc3 asides from human are more or less identical. Slow moving wagons with long range siege damage. The collusi and siege tank are vastly different things. Zerg do not even have "Long range ground based artillery" .
    You didn't even address my serious arguments, that the game is micro/hero based with units merely adding as support. Unit composition in Wc3 is negligible so long as your micro/hero usage is good. In SC2, it's life or death.


    Oh sorry for being close minded , cause you know I guess the 4th race is MOST LIKELY going to be the Aiur Bengal Tigers. Jeez I mean it's not like the Hybrids came into mind or the most likely candidate.
    They're going to be forced to retcon or force an entire new race in the koprulu sector.
    One day Kerrigan is gonna open a hole in the ground and find a race of intelligent gophers designed by the Xel Naga to help the fight. Ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by dustinbrowder View Post
    You are very weird man. Have you no logic?
    And again you had to be pretty big noob about PC not to know about the change, I mean even the birds on the trees knew about it.

    ...Its like calling throwing stone an athletic competition. Get a grip man and don't write nonsense...
    Shot put anyone?

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