Toss Tactics

[Randobob]

I've been playing random throughout the Beta, and have been doing well in platinum, but after a day or two in phase II it finally got to the point where I started to lose too much and had to pick a race: Protoss.

Any other randoms out there have to break down and pick a race?

Any good tips from straight Toss players out there? I think I have a pretty solid build order. I do 9 pylon, and scout with that probe. If I don't see gas I can 2 gate zelot rush, and If I see gas I can get the core instead of a second gate and get a quick stalker. Then i do a three gate push and get a quick robo., etc.

Just realized I probably should have posted this in the strategy section. Sorry. However the picking a race question still applys as a general question. How many other Random's out there had to pick a race to stay competitive?

[Sarov]

Just realized I probably should have posted this in the strategy section. Sorry.

Done.

[Warsaw]

I thought of playing Random because it lets me play all the races and I want to have fun... but that ain't going to work, so I went Protoss too.

Step 1: 9/pylon, gate, work/pylon... proceed with building more warp gates and crono boosting out zealots. Then build a forge and cannon rush.

Step 2:

Step 3: PROFIT!

I tried that while playing with Hamshank. (Same user name here right? That his user name on SC2) and I lost us the game. :P So far in my own personal matches I tend to end the game in the first tier and it comes down to if I go Zealot rush and suffer getting Stalkers a bit late, or keep pushing zealots. If I stick to a standard Zealot build, 9pylon, gate, etc... then build 3-4 gates I have no problem winning but I have a lot of problem transitioning my army into a stalker army. Personally I find the most important thing I have to work on is getting out stalkers at the right time, and in enough numbers. I never have a set time I build stalkers so that usually costs me the game. That and when I'm rushing with Zealots I tend to screw up my macro or when I'm macroing and I'm rushing my zealots I screw up my micro. I find the best way to start the game is with a zealot rush, but don't let it damage your macro. It does to me and I screw up getting stalkers at the right time, and then I loose.

Long story short, make sure you get enough stalkers. I'm told 1 zealot is good for 3 stalkers, personally I don't know if that's all true but Zealots will get owned if they have no support in tier 1. I guess this can be solve by scouting. I'm not sure how important scouting is with Zerg and Terran but I find that if I don't as a Protoss it can easily cost me the game.

Late game Protoss is kind of lame btw. Carrier? archon? mothership?

My main problem with these lame units-the mothership. Personally I like the unit, but for the radius of it's invisibility sucks, because the mothership is so big. You have to be so close to your units, but it doesn't matter because your mothership is so close to your units, and it's the only one visibly it goes down super fast. And it's not like the enemy wont have enough AA or air units to take it down. Your in the third tier. It's a bit of the same thing with carriers, they are so huge and need to get so close. Archons... I've never used them once.

/rant

Sorry. I just wanted to get some stuff out of my system. I've been thinking about switching back to Terran. :P There is probably a lot of errors in my post too since I just ranted on and on.

Phoenix kick ass though. The ability to love units comes in hand a lot. I love picking up units as they try to run away. Great way to harass.

One last problem I have with the Toss, but this is purely cosmetic. The void ray. It doesn't even look like a ship. It looks like nothing. Ugh, what were they thinking! And that weird shield thing on the Stalker. I don't like that either.

[kyr200]

wat the heck? isnt that like hecka late for cannon rush? they would have marines, zerglings, or zealots to stop your cannon rush. unless you do some weird cheese

you might wanna try some early harassment. bring out a pheonix or void ray and just start attacking his mineral line.

[Randobob]

Yeah, I never use tier three, but the tier two toss owns most tier 3 of other races so I don't have two. Voids counter bc's and ultras well, though I need to mix in some stalkers with the voids to be really effective against bcs. immortals and voids own mech. Phoenix and storm good for broods (also temps with feed back rock bc's. I did it to a terran who went bc's the other day, and couldn't stop smiling for the rest of the day...it just made me feel good).

So, I totally agree about teir 3 being usless, but I find I can still be effective without using.

Basically you had it right with scouting. I feel scouting with toss is more important then with other races...which is why you get observers, the only clocked scouting unit.

My #1 strategy is to scout and adjust...unfortuately if it was that easy I'd never lose. (i'm 50/50 in platinum).

[silencbank]

To answer the question about the random part there is absolutely nothing wrong with just settling on one race. Some people who play random just play random until the can find one race that suits them the best. Even TLO leans toward Terran and Zerg now instead of pure random. There is nothing wrong with either choice as long as you are ok with the outcome. Do not try to force yourself into doing something you dont want to, your game will suffer for it. In between the beta phases I was using Build Order Testers to practice with Terran even though I really do not like anything about Terran. Do not like the lore, the units, the macro mechanic part of it or anything. And I tried to force myself to learn it and failed miserably when the beta came back. I went back to protoss because they are the race that suit me the most.

As for the strategy part I will say that 9 pylon into 3 warpgates and robo is absolutely fine. It lets you go so many directions and it is one of the strategies that I use as well. As a matter of fact your line of thinking as a whole is fine as well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with just trying new things to see if it works. Personally I use a different starting strategy for each race I face off against. Against zerg I always 2 gate into a fast expand and get cannons for defense at my natural. Against protoss I get Phoenixes to destroy the gas collecting workers. And against Terran I go Voidrays. The easiest way to get better is to keep trying one build over and over and over until you absolutely prefect it. You will learn what you can do, what you can transition to, and what can kill you before you get that strategy working. If zealot rushing when they have no gas works, keep doing it. If the 3 gate robo works, keep doing it. One day the strategies may horribly fail and you have to change either one or the other, but if they are working now why change them. If you get perfect at whatever strategies you play with you will ultimately not have to worry about having to change since you have learned so much from those strategies. There will never be a strategy that will never lose, and even the best ever have lost. If you get really good at a strategy you will be able to see everything that can beat it and will easily be able to realize if what they are doing is one of the things you have to worry about. If they are not doing one of those things, then just kill them and GG.

Scouting is very important with every race as well, which is why my strategies strengths rely on not only killing units, but forcing the other player to do something. Let me use the 2 gate fast expand with zerg as an example. If they are trying to fast expand themselves then they are dead. The simply will not have enough zerglings to hold off the consistent pressure my zealots are giving. So that is one thing I do not have to worry about. So let us say they have seen my 2 gate and went roach. I throw up a cybernetics core and get stalkers which easily kill roaches because of range, not to mention the cannons at my choke. So I do not have to worry about roaches either. Let's say they build spine crawlers in their main instead of either one of these, I just expand and win later on in the game. By doing my zealot rush I force them into a situation that they do not want to be in, and that I already know how to deal with. This may not be what everyone likes doing but this is how I like it. By doing it like this I have to worry about one specific thing and not much else. Instead of reacting to what they get, I make them get exactly what I want them to, it makes the game so much easier. Anyway sorry for the long winded wall o' text, just love me some 2 gating against zerg.

[whitefire]

I may not have any specifics but I have a few tips. If your doing a gateway push you need to get charge and blink. it makes your units so much stronger and you can ever throw in some dts for worker kills and if he isnt paying attention you might be able to even snipe an expansion. I know it works because I have seen whiteRa do it several times to great sucsess. VR rush into 3 gate chargelot push works too. Dont neglect the warp prism. alot of toss do that but it allows you to attack where ever you want. just make sure to scout out the area first with an observer to make sure its safe.