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Thread: slow victory

  1. #1
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    Default slow victory

    hi guys,

    Ive managed to win the most of my games lately but...

    When i look at my replays, it looks to me like it takes me kinda long to win a game...

    For example this last match against terran (see replay)

    My idea is to keep the terran in his base and don't let him expand..

    Any tips here?? (other tips on my gameplay are always welcome ofc )

  2. #2
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    Default Re: slow victory

    Next time get a big force of zlings going, alot more then you had (you suicided too many zlings to scvs, judge how many zlings you have and work around the scvs till it's no longer suicide) and transition over to roaches after the first attack. (In that situation roaches after first attack would've been a good idea)

    That game should've been over after the bust.

    When you send banelings in, send zlings too. That way they have to target the banelings instead of letting the ai do it.

    When you expand you need to power drone for a bit (make a shit ton of drones) or expanding doesn't really help you much. Also make both gas at your expansion especially if you plan on doing somthing gas heavy like broodlords. Mutas could've easily mopped up that terran. I would've just swiched to roaches and won it after the first bust. (Then again I would've had a lot more lings and won at the first bust)

    Never suicide your units. If they look like they are gonna lose weigh your options and try to keep them alive and use them for another purpose. Such as when you ran in with your lings you should've recognized that those lings weren't gonna win against that many scvs and should've killed any units he produced and depos while waiting for re-enforcments. If they chased the lings with all his scvs, let him so he can't mine till you get re-enforcments.
    Last edited by ChAoS; 05-14-2010 at 07:09 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: slow victory

    oke, thx mate!!
    i wasn't building roaches cuz he had marauders...

    But oke ill think about it

  4. #4
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    Default Re: slow victory

    Well normally roaches vs marauders isn't the best idea but he had hellions, and didn't have the econ to stop a second wave.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: slow victory

    Meh roaches would have been a risky and weak follow up because he was turtling pretty hard imo. It's easy to notice that he didn't have the barracks to support a bunch of marauders when watching the replay, but you don't know that when watching from a players point of view since he could have put them down immediately and gone for a marauder all-in attack to win the game when you thought you had secured the lead. After all, you hurt your econ by using so many larvae for lings, so he could capitalize on that and attack before you got any revenue from your nat.
    Another point is that going for roaches would have left you vulnerable to a fast tech to banshees (which would have been a good option for the T after losing so much econ).
    His mistake here was playing a standard game despite losing so much econ (and he didn't rebuild his SCVs for ages as well...). Of course he would get overpowered by doing that.

    1) Generally speaking, you might have insisted too much with the zerglings, the last batch was probably a waste of larvae. In this case it was no problem, but I'm sure we've all lost games by being too eager to end it quickly.
    2) If I were you, here is what I would have done for a quick win after destroying his econ:
    -transition straight to hydra
    -get a 3rd
    -upgrade overlord speed and scout all over the map (including his base)
    -start upgrades from evo
    => Once bases are secured and mining: nydus drop him and finish it.

    To me, that's the fastest and safest route. With some fast hydra to repel any cheesy comebacks and a quick powerful econ he wouldn't stand a chance. If he has too many tanks, you need to back-tech to roaches with tunnel though, or tech up to BL quickly if your econ can support it. That doesn't happen too often though.

    Your plan to tech to broodlords was good and safe I guess, but the nydus usually works, especially if the moment the first worm pops you make another one on the other side of his base. The game could have ended around 17-18 instead of 26.

    You owned him though.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: slow victory

    Quote Originally Posted by Hammy View Post
    Meh roaches would have been a risky and weak follow up because he was turtling pretty hard imo. It's easy to notice that he didn't have the barracks to support a bunch of marauders when watching the replay, but you don't know that when watching from a players point of view since he could have put them down immediately and gone for a marauder all-in attack to win the game when you thought you had secured the lead. After all, you hurt your econ by using so many larvae for lings, so he could capitalize on that and attack before you got any revenue from your nat.
    Another point is that going for roaches would have left you vulnerable to a fast tech to banshees (which would have been a good option for the T after losing so much econ).
    His mistake here was playing a standard game despite losing so much econ (and he didn't rebuild his SCVs for ages as well...). Of course he would get overpowered by doing that.

    1) Generally speaking, you might have insisted too much with the zerglings, the last batch was probably a waste of larvae. In this case it was no problem, but I'm sure we've all lost games by being too eager to end it quickly.
    2) If I were you, here is what I would have done for a quick win after destroying his econ:
    -transition straight to hydra
    -get a 3rd
    -upgrade overlord speed and scout all over the map (including his base)
    -start upgrades from evo
    => Once bases are secured and mining: nydus drop him and finish it.

    To me, that's the fastest and safest route. With some fast hydra to repel any cheesy comebacks and a quick powerful econ he wouldn't stand a chance. If he has too many tanks, you need to back-tech to roaches with tunnel though, or tech up to BL quickly if your econ can support it. That doesn't happen too often though.

    Your plan to tech to broodlords was good and safe I guess, but the nydus usually works, especially if the moment the first worm pops you make another one on the other side of his base. The game could have ended around 17-18 instead of 26.

    You owned him though.
    Did you watch replay? weak to fast banshee? Lings are weak vs banshees to ya know. I never said to open with roaches just follow up with them cause of the hellions and the fact that he got a big chunk of scvs and would know because of his attack that the terran was lacking units and would not be able to keep up. further more going bane bust in no way puts you behind unless it was a complete fail.
    I zergling pump people all the time with lots of money all the time left over. unless I do no dmg what so ever I'm still ahead.

    Hydras? are you serious? hydras die very fast to hellions. The zergling batches got wasted cause he was directly attacking scvs and shit with too small of an amount of zlings.

    back tech to roaches? why not just go roaches with tunnel right after the rush fails.

    You obviously don't play terran, well I do and I can tell you he did not have the econ to switch to banshees.

    PS that was hardly a hard turtle, one bunker and didn't complete the wall. The zerg could've even made like 40 zlings and just simply over ran the base. Zlings counter marauders btw.
    Last edited by ChAoS; 05-15-2010 at 03:06 AM.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: slow victory

    Yes I did watch the replay. Yes I do play terran, and zerg as a matter of fact, so I'm quite familiar with this matchup.
    No, hydra do not die to hellion before critical mass is reached, good micro is in action, and there's a big battle going on, which wasn't going to happen here considering the econ going on.
    You didn't say to open with roaches, but to follow up with roaches. Lings into roaches is weak to banshees isn't it? Probably weaker thank lings into hydra (yes, I'm being sarcastic). And of course he could support banshees for harassing purposes. Even with a shattered econ his gas revenue remains easy to modulate.

    He wouldn't go straight to roaches (after his lings obviously, we're analyzing a replay, so these are transitions AFTER the ling damage was done) because of the reasons stated above.
    Why would he back tech? => As a response to too many tanks, the terran's only effective response to hydralisks once he's behind in econ. I think the OP was correct not to be hasty and commit to roaches.

    That is why hydra are a safe and efficient choice. Hell he could have gone for another baneling bust and pulled it off, but why take that risk when you could finish the game almost as quickly with a much safer option? You say to transition into roaches, but to break that front he would have had to commit to roaches quite a bit, which could have been dangerous without the right intel.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: slow victory

    yeah, i think it would be better to get those hydra's up... from my experience (not that it's much but... ) marauders really eat roaches, everytime i face marauders with my roaches,
    i see them die very fast..

    thx for the nice discussions guys!!

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    Default Re: slow victory

    Quote Originally Posted by ChAoS View Post
    you suicided too many zlings to scvs
    This made me laugh out loud .

    Man, in Brood War, it takes a lot of skill to not have your SCVs die to a small band of Zerglings, but in SC2, it's so much easier for workers to kill Zerglings .

  10. #10
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    Default Re: slow victory

    I know a little bit of role reversal huh? scvs now get raped by a couple zlots and own a few zlings.

    I watched that replay again I guess it looks like the bunker actually does complete that wall. I still would've run ran over him with bane/zling especially how he had a shit load of marines. Hydras are viable but he already had the tech to roaches that is why I pretty much insisted he went roach/ling instead of teching.

    Your biggest problem is your drones. When you expand you need a lot more of them and don't forget spore crawlers vs terran. Terrans love to abuse zergs with banshees.

    FYI he had a handful of marauders compaired to his army of marines. Anyone know what roaches do to marines? What about speedlings to tanks and marauders?

    You should also consider making overseers in order to make change-lings so you do know what the terran is doing.

    Also when he finished his roach tech he could've made 6 roaches right away. Enough roaches + the zlings he had to end the game.
    Last edited by ChAoS; 05-15-2010 at 05:49 AM.
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