Thoughts on Reapers

[Triceron]

So after playing quite a few games of SC2, I've been thinking about the use of Tier 1 units in the end game. Most Tier 1 units have their uses, and even the late game scene can be used to counter certain units and combos. Marines are still used as a backbone, zerglings are great immortal/stalker counters, even banelings can be used to destroy large late-game infantry forces.

One unit seems to lack use in the late game scene in my mind, and that's the Reaper. While this unit is great for countering light units, fast for raiding and has great building damage potential, I can't see this unit getting a lot of great use in the late game. At a cost of 50m/50g, this unit is simply too gas heavy in the late game to be made as a proper counter.

I think units like Hellions are much better used as light counters, due to their splash damage and no gas cost; as well as the fact they can be double pumped from one factory with a reactor for situations that necessitate anti-light units. Even a decent mass marine/marauder force can handle most light units. Reapers are great early game zealot killers when you have time to micro; but if we're talking about late-game mixed forces and speed upgrades, the Reapers take a backseat and are killed very easily.

I sort of think the Reaper needs its gas cost to be lowered, and perhaps allow it to be made though Reactors after a certain point. To prevent early game rushes, have their cliff jumping be a gas-heavy researched ability to prevent early harass. The cheaper cost and easier production might give it more of a late-game purpose to be made.

Any thoughts?

[Gradius]

I've used it in late-game before as a distraction. Sometimes I also add it to my general army makeup when I'm attacking my opponent's base so that its extra damage against buildings takes everything out real fast.

[GRUNT]

I have to say that Reapers seem somewhat disappointing right now.

Then again, I play Zerg, so I'm not overly familiar with Reaper use in other matchups. However, my overall impression is that as players are better at spotting a Reaper rush (getting Speedlings as Zerg or Stalkers as Protoss), Terran players are using Reapers less and less. Now, I don't even see them in the early game all that often anymore.

Sometimes, I'll see a Terran get just a lone Reaper to harass a bit and to use as an early scout, but that's about it.

I had this theorycraft idea that mid-lategame, you could put 6 Reapers in a Dropship and use them as a hit-and-run demolitions team. It may seem silly putting Reapers in a Dropship, but my theory is that they'll take down a building faster than an equivalent number of Marines, and the Dropship will let them come from an unexpected quarter. Still, that's 300 gas, but I'm wondering if it's worth it .

[newcomplex]

Meh, if I wanted to cheese against protoss I'd just SCV rush.

[Hamshank]

I've used it in late-game before as a distraction. Sometimes I also add it to my general army makeup when I'm attacking my opponent's base so that its extra damage against buildings takes everything out real fast.

I've done this as well, though not to much effect.

I can see how theoretically it could be a good idea. How did that work for you Gradius?

[Todie]

Meh, if I wanted to cheese against protoss I'd just SCV rush.

grunts theorycraft is a much different kind of cheese, if its cheese at all.



... iv had thoughts of using reapers in some cool early - early-midgame mixed push/drop ... with a force of reapers + an early raven and 1+2 medivacs with some other shit in it, maybe helions + marauders, for the ultimate kill-workers-taskforce; autoturrets to block their route, helions to kill em with splash when they clump up, and reapers to kill the stray workers & hunt em down one by one even faster than helions.

i havnt realyl been able to hit a good timing even vs the AI though, and terran is probably my weakest race period, but atill, maybe it CAN be done in a favourable way, in some situations.



i agree about the problem with the reper in principle, even though i havnt played enoguh to realyl know first-hand yet.. but the high gas investment makes even the use of them early sort of an all-in move.

what if we replaced nitronpack upgrade (or just added another) to lower its gas cost to 35 or something. - it could have a long research time, o make it less viable o use for rushes. if needed.

[Kimera757]

I agree that reapers are pretty gas heavy. However, their building-destroying ability is always handy, as long as the enemy doesn't have units that can counter reapers at their expansions. (And even then, reapers are pretty fast!)

[Blazur]

Reapers crush the Protoss early on. Haven't used them late game, but certainly see the value for harassment or a distraction. Also as a scout, too.

[Norfindel]

I'm not too sure about this unit. I think it needs a radical change.

First of all, i would see what the Terran army needs, and see if i can add base-raiding to the unit as a secondary role.

I like the idea of adding additional abilities with upgrades, that helps the unit to remain effective in the late game, and keeps OP stuff out the early game. However, if the unit is too cheap and upgrades add a lot to the unit, there could be problems in the late game.

What about making this unit a sort of early spellcaster for the Terrans? Make D8 Charges a manual ability that costs Energy. The Charges could be able to be destroyed, and explode several times, hollywood-style to allow for dodging partial damage (thus, allowing a very short delay before detonation). So, you must be fast to dodge this things with workers, and used in the middle of a battle would also require quick dodging, or focusing fire on them to take them down before they explode.

They could have other abilities, like smoke grenades, or something like that. Smoke could block vision for all units except detectors.

As they're now, they're gas-heavy, but no so gas heavy that you cannot build several of them, thus, the unit power had to be nerfed, and D8 Charges became a special anti-building attack, that serves no purpose in battle most of the time.

[SlickR]

Its actually pretty useless even early game.

Its just too weak to deal with anything other than zealots, marines and zerglings, and even this is limited, due to the high gas cost.
So the only viable strategy with it, its rush to reapers and try to harass.
And while the harass may work against low level players and in the lower ranks, more decent players will not have much trouble dealing with it.