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Thread: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

  1. #11

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaxilos View Post
    Well, the reason there called "Macro Mechanics" is because there suppose to increase the amount of macro required in a game. It increases macro because the player has to constantly go back to his base to keep the economy up or else they'll be behind there opponent. If it was to be permanent, it wouldn't really boost any macro.
    Macro isn't defined by the amount of times you go back to your base. Macro is the management of your resources, teching, upgrades, and unit production. Multi-tasking was what they wanted to achieve, and that is achieved with this, only without the timed chore.
    http://sclegacy.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=23&dateline=124193888  6

    Please stop the spread of Mass Effect!!!

  2. #12

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    "Micro" in a real-time strategy game is defined as a series of actions centered on a single unit or group of units to maximize their potential. Micro is the efficient utilization of resources. A prevalent example is the micro usage of the relatively weak Terran Vulture unit in StarCraft I, using its speed and the nature of its attack to the players advantage. Skilled players can control the Vulture's movement to make it almost attack on the move, and dodge enemy attacks.

    "Macro" is generally defined as a series of actions centered around one's economy and base, however it also encompasses the make-up and control of one's entire army. Macro is the culmination of micro actions. Macro is the efficient accumulation of resources, either money, units, or technology.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    Anyway you slice it, whether you want to call it "macro" or not (which it is), the mechanics were implemented in order to force the players to bring their view back to the base and interact with it. This is a direct counter measure to the ease of unit production created by MBS and automine.

    People didn't like the idea of starting a base then never looking at it again because all their buildings are hotkeyed.


  4. #14

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    Allow me to offer another perspective. Currently macro energy IS a new resource. You build "generators" that produce macro energy for you to use. These generators are the OC, queen and whatever the Protoss end up with. I kind of like this system because it allows you to ramp up your resource aquisition exponentially/linearly/mass effectedly/whateverly.


    Now the question being posted in this thread is not whether macro should have a special resource but whether this resource should be localized to a specific map location and limited.

  5. #15

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    Quote Originally Posted by SaharaDrac View Post
    Anyway you slice it, whether you want to call it "macro" or not (which it is), the mechanics were implemented in order to force the players to bring their view back to the base and interact with it. This is a direct counter measure to the ease of unit production created by MBS and automine.

    People didn't like the idea of starting a base then never looking at it again because all their buildings are hotkeyed.
    I answered this in the OP. I don't believe the intent was exactly to make you return to your base. I believe they wanted you to pay attention to any spot at the same time as doing anything you are currently doing (multitasking). This resource harvesting which would be considered extremely important in most games would be hard to defend. This means your attention will most likely have to come back to it alot to ensure your workers are not being killed off. It is simply a more extreme version of the high yield minerals, only this new resource isnt actually the resource that allows you to build units and buildings.

    Workers are weak, therefore if you dont watch, you aren't going to be gathering those resources. After getting a macro mechanic going, you have to pay attention to your special resource harvesting and your macro boost, as it will be a serious target for sniping. Thats multi-tasking, which I believe is exactly what they want in the game. Forcing you to go back to your base every X period of time is not macro at all, its exactly what people think it is, which is mindless busy work.
    http://sclegacy.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=23&dateline=124193888  6

    Please stop the spread of Mass Effect!!!

  6. #16

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    I thought this would be common knowledge by now but

    TL: To follow that up, what types of challenges do you face when trying to balance the needs of the casual player versus the rage of hardcore players like in the progaming community. You had mentioned the macro mechanics being a big one.

    DB: Sure that's definitely a big one – it's a place where we feel we can definitely do better but it then does break other systems. You know a great example I love reading on Teamliquid and elsewhere were not so much that you guys were missing clicks – some people said that and I didn't agree with that – but that we were missing the difference between a macro player and a micro player. That we were destroying the sense of style of the player. I could be playing a micro game and you could be playing a macro game with both the same race, and we are still playing a very different game from one another. And when I saw that I was like “Ohh!” I was opening my eyes like “Thanks! THERE IT IS! That's great! That's genius! That's exactly what we need to try to accomplish”.

  7. #17

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    Quote Originally Posted by Santrega View Post
    I answered this in the OP. I don't believe the intent was exactly to make you return to your base. I believe they wanted you to pay attention to any spot at the same time as doing anything you are currently doing (multitasking). This resource harvesting which would be considered extremely important in most games would be hard to defend. This means your attention will most likely have to come back to it alot to ensure your workers are not being killed off. It is simply a more extreme version of the high yield minerals, only this new resource isnt actually the resource that allows you to build units and buildings.

    Workers are weak, therefore if you dont watch, you aren't going to be gathering those resources. After getting a macro mechanic going, you have to pay attention to your special resource harvesting and your macro boost, as it will be a serious target for sniping. Thats multi-tasking, which I believe is exactly what they want in the game. Forcing you to go back to your base every X period of time is not macro at all, its exactly what people think it is, which is mindless busy work.
    Q: So manual labor instead of automation?
    A: Exactly. There is a nice story about this. Back then, I was working on addons to Mechwarrior 2. That's how I know that there was still automatic targetting in an early version: You only had to decide, which weapons to fire in what order, the Computer would guide them to the target. The only thing you had to watch out for was not to overheat. That might even have been interesting, but just for few players. The majority wanted action, and they got it in the end. The same applies to Starcraft: We want the players to go back to their base in order to produce reinforcements. We want them to really take care instead of relying on an automatic process.
    From GameStar interview with Dustin Browder. This was not the first time Blizzard stated the intent of the mechanics being this. So what you "believe", is incorrect.

    http://communitystarcraft.com/news-r...in-browder.php


  8. #18

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    Just fyi, I'm milling on this idea personally. My initial instinct is to be against it.. but I'd rather mull about it personally a bit more before I jump the gun. The discussion here has been rather constructive overall.
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  9. #19

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    I think, Gifted, that's because there's little room for construction without "ruining" the game and/or upsetting a disproportionately large mass of people. If you look at how the original gas mechanic evolved, it went from being something one crowd liked to being something a different crowed liked to something nobody liked.

    EDIT: wait, you said "has been......constructive" I thought you said "has NOT been"

    nvm lol
    Last edited by n00bonicPlague; 12-22-2009 at 02:32 AM. Reason: I so stewpyd

  10. #20

    Default Re: Another Macro Idea : Special Resource (needs a name)

    Well, it's more than just that. When I worked my consulting terms... part of my expertise was attempting to find the meaning behind the discussion. In other words, instead of replying to what they're saying, I would work to identify niches and roles that were the origin of the concerns and be able to provide a directional flow for the meetings to help understand exactly is the most productive way to find a solution to the true problem.

    That's why I got paid the big bucks ^_^

    The reason why I'm holding back is that what I suspected originally as the "origin item" being addressed has seemed to shift as the conversation goes on. At least that's how I percieve it. I think I'm in the "information gathering" mode to see if it's a niche I haven't perceived yet. While my initial response would be "this won't work, blah blah blah" I think it's more important to keep an open mind... the discussion has brought some good points... and it has nothing to do with the words typed but rather the trails of thoughts that have been portrayed.

    When Santrega was considerate enough to approach me in PMs regarding this issue, that's why I didn't initially give him my opinion. It's kinda left field in some ways in terms of the typical train of thought. For that reason, I don't want to give an opinion or jump in prematurely without hearing and observing more input. This way, instead of simply saying what my instinct is, I can identify the true issues this is trying to resolve, compare it with existing niches, mechanics that alternatively exist, compare alternatives, examine it in terms of early/mid/late game reference, consider flaws and new niches to be created, compare it with game identity, compare it with company goals, etc.. This is how I approach game design and why I typically don't just "jump in". That's also why I wanted to give him questions to answer himself. That helps me understand these vital peices of information that help speed up the process of finding viable results.

    I hope I made some sense there, It may have come out as babble.
    Last edited by Gifted; 12-22-2009 at 01:04 AM.
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