Protoss Shields and Armor

[Nicol Bolas]

In SC1, Protoss players completely ignored shield "armor" upgrades. And with good reason: they were worthless. Shields take full damage from all attacks, so armoring them was meaningless. What good is turning a 20-point Vulture attack into a 19-point one? And even though shields heal (relatively) quickly, they run out just as quickly, especially to Terrans who use a lot of damage types.

In SC2, shields work differently. They take damage as the underlying unit does. They heal extremely quickly if the unit is out of combat for long enough. High Templars now have a spell to help heal shields (though the particulars of the spell are unknown). Shield upgrades are not broken down into "ground" and "air"; shield upgrades cover everything, even buildings.

Immortals take this to a new level. They get to apply the shield "armor" after minimizing the damage to 10, so each +1 of shield armor reduces the maximum damage they take to shields by 1. At +1, you need 11 separate attacks maximum to punch through their 100 points of shields. At +3, this becomes 14. This is on top of having 200 points of Hp.

My question is this: does all of this effectively compete with +1 armor upgrades, or is it actually more powerful than the armor upgrades?

My concern is particularly for TvP, where Immortals with +3 shields can be devastating. It even makes Marine attack upgrades past +1 meaningless. This becomes even stronger if you've got a HT or two doing their shield healing thing on them (though it might be best for them to take the opportunity to Psi Storm the Marines instead).

I know units don't have that much in the way of shields compared to Hp. But still; fast out-of-combat shield healing + standard damage + serves air and ground units equally could make armor upgrades the meaningless ones. Which effectively means that the Protoss only have 3 domains to upgrade rather than five.

[MattII]

Personally I don't think shields should get 'armour upgrades' at all, I think the upgrades should just increase the number of shield points (say, 2/upgrade for a Zealot, 3/upgrade for a Stalker, maybe as much as 5/upgrade for an Immortal).

I've also thought about another type of shield, a 'leaky shield'. This would regenerate even under fire (but at 1/3-1/2 speed), but any single attack over a certain amount (say 15) would leak through, doing damage to the unit underneath.

[Perfecttear]

The shield upgrade will be more important this time than in sc1, since shields regenerate faster and thus more damage is done to shields and can be prevented. If i would have to choose +1armor or +1 shield, i would choose shield, since it affect every protoss unit including buildings.

[DemolitionSquid]

There needs to be a big distinction in armor and shield ups. Shield needs to be much more expensive, and not influence units like the Immortal in bizarre ways.

[ArcherofAiur]

There needs to be a big distinction in armor and shield ups. Shield needs to be much more expensive, and not influence units like the Immortal in bizarre ways.

Whoa someone who doesnt like the immortal =:O

[Pandonetho]

Nah armour won't be meaningless, unless you plan to run your guys every single time they engage in a fight and then have their shields drained.

Or when they get blasted by multiple EMPs from Ghosts (if they still have it).

[Norfindel]

There needs to be a big distinction in armor and shield ups. Shield needs to be much more expensive, and not influence units like the Immortal in bizarre ways.

They had always been more expensive. Twice the cost of the ground Armor upgrades, that's why nobody used it, as you gained little. In fact, Shield upgrades aren't a benefit, they're a disadvantage, as they don't stack with the Armor upgrades, you just needed to research 2 upgrades to get the same benefit that the other races with 1.
With the way Shields work now, it's very possible that players will start researching them, but remember than for the cost of one Shield upgrade, you can upgrade Armor and Weapons.

[Zigurd]

I fully support the way upgrades work right now. I also fully support the power of the Immortal.

[Whanhee]

Personally I don't think shields should get 'armour upgrades' at all, I think the upgrades should just increase the number of shield points (say, 2/upgrade for a Zealot, 3/upgrade for a Stalker, maybe as much as 5/upgrade for an Immortal).

I've also thought about another type of shield, a 'leaky shield'. This would regenerate even under fire (but at 1/3-1/2 speed), but any single attack over a certain amount (say 15) would leak through, doing damage to the unit underneath.

I like the shield point upgrade idea. It really works with protoss and it keeps immortal shields from being stacked with upgrades.

The leaky shield seems a bit weak though since anything that does lots of damage would just rape its face off. *cough* siege tank *cough* Though I did just notice that very few units in sc2 do ridiculous amounts of damage.

[Noise]

I did not know this! Sounds great, and it sounds like shield upgrades are better than armor, justifying their greater cost.