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Thread: Stalker Lore Question

  1. #21

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    void crystals bound to every child at birth then forged into a weapon
    What? So you'll have to elaborate on this one.

    And did they forget that "Ihan Rii" was one of the names addressed to the Xel'Naga, and not a Protoss faction? Or does that mean this cult faction are literally calling themselves Xel'Naga?
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    The newly introduced ihan-rii immortal variant is literally a corpse in a sarcophagus with guns mounted on.
    Haha, I can't even conceive of why such a thing would ever exist. At least Stalkers and Dragoons have a rationale behind their design and that whatever occupies the machine (be it an actual person or a "spirit") has some inherent value to the functioning of that machine. I mean, what does the corpse actually do/provide for the machine? How is the corpse a critical component of the machines function and what makes having a corpse inside it different to another identical-looking computer/AI controlled machine with no corpse in it? I don't know about anyone else, but I can't stop laughing at how nonsensical this concept is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I always thought the protoss dragoon and its variants did not make all that much sense. The protoss are clearly advanced enough to resurrect the dead from mind uploads with some kind of, I don't know, a "death-warp system" like the cylons in the 2004 Battlestar Galactica series. Furthermore, that would better reconcile the teleport death retcon and the protoss' casual battlelust versus their limited population. The templar would not fear death because they could not die: their souls would be resurrected in robotic shells or cloned bodies.
    I'm guessing the reason why it isn't like this is because they did try it at one point and they eventually became what the Purifiers were (cue AI/robot rebellion)...
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  3. #23

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    You really believe that? You sweet summer child.
    I'm not in the mood for this today, Mislag. A family member of mine just passed away a few hours ago.

  4. #24

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    My condolences, Rag. Take care of yourself first and foremost, otherwise you'll wear yourself so thin you won't be of use to anyone else. You come first.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  5. #25

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    My condolences, Rag. Take care of yourself first and foremost, otherwise you'll wear yourself so thin you won't be of use to anyone else. You come first.
    She was the only member in my family who didn't treat me via brutality, hence why I had to reach out to others here on forums.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6AdJZMSrzU
    I interpret this new faction as a very primitive version of the protoss, well as a way of thinking closer to the protoss before being abandoned by the Xelnagas has had access to a very advanced technology, and merely manages it because it is very intuitive but does not fully understand it, so interpret as divine, something like the mechanicum cult in W40k,so it presents highly ritualistic and superstitious behavior beyond what is seen even in the Taldarim
    Last edited by drakolobo; 08-18-2019 at 01:18 AM.

  7. #27

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    What? So you'll have to elaborate on this one.
    It says this in the dark templar unit re-skin:
    Early in their training, Ihan-rii protoss are bound to a void crystal that resonates with a unique psionic signature. Once they reach adulthood, this crystal is sharpened into a deadly spearpoint.
    A crystal attuned to you from a young age sounds like a fascinating custom for a culture to practice, but unfortunately Blizzard isn't cut out for writing cultures. I already came up with a bunch of ways to make the ihanrii cool and distinct, like giving them mad science, a void-based khala, and so forth. Unfortunately Blizzard couldn't be bothered to do the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    And did they forget that "Ihan Rii" was one of the names addressed to the Xel'Naga, and not a Protoss faction? Or does that mean this cult faction are literally calling themselves Xel'Naga?
    Their backstory is that they believe themselves to be the rightful descendants of the xel'naga. In other words, their backstory is a bizarre mishmash of khalai and taldarim. As is the standard for Blizzard, the current writers have no idea what the previous writers wrote or don't care and are making stuff up.

    I find this extremely frustrating because it strips away interesting aspects from current factions to showcase new factions, rather than putting in effort to make the existing factions more interesting.

    In the SC1 manual draft of the lore, or at least what I can piece together given that there are still huge vagueness and inconsistencies there, is that the Protoss Empire is a galactic power, owning countless worlds across maybe an eighth of the galaxy or whatever the scales are really vague. Their religion is seemingly this alien atheistic ancestor worship that to some degree vilifies the mythical xel'naga while at the same time claiming their mantle as guardians of the galaxy. The text is annoyingly vague about really important concepts.

    Blizzard never really put that much detail into the existing factions much less keep track of what little they did write. The protoss history and tribal bios gave you broad strokes, but you never really got a detailed feel for what it was actually like to live in their society. The information was vague and scattered rather than planned out with maps and so forth. So I do not find it that surprising that Blizzard forgets pretty much everything on a regular basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Haha, I can't even conceive of why such a thing would ever exist. At least Stalkers and Dragoons have a rationale behind their design and that whatever occupies the machine (be it an actual person or a "spirit") has some inherent value to the functioning of that machine. I mean, what does the corpse actually do/provide for the machine? How is the corpse a critical component of the machines function and what makes having a corpse inside it different to another identical-looking computer/AI controlled machine with no corpse in it? I don't know about anyone else, but I can't stop laughing at how nonsensical this concept is.
    One of my ideas for a revision of the ihanrii (as part of a SC AU in general) is that they don't practice the great stewardship. Instead, they believe all living things are their playthings in order to emulate the mythical xel'naga.

    I came up with the idea that the ihanrii are creepy mad scientists who practice Lovecraft-style necromancy and reanimation techniques. Where the protoss empire just stores souls in the khala and downloads them into robotic walkers and clones, the ihanrii reanimate corpses and plug them into mechs.

    In general I thought the dragoon/stalker/whatever backstory was highly questionable. The protoss (and humans, and zerg) clearly have the technology for feasible mind uploading and resurrecting people as clones, much less replace limbs with cyborg implants or regrown flesh, but never actually do so except in a few rare instances like Fenix and Stukov.

    I understand that giving characters resurrection can destroy tension, but not if everybody has that same capability. At that point, it becomes an exercise in wearing your opponent down. Resurrection is pointless if your army is destroyed.

    Anyway, I'm having difficulty justifying robotic walkers with injured people inside if medical technology can fix them. It makes sense in Warhammer because they don't understand how their own tech works and it is only used for exceptional circumstances since Astartes can regenerate or get cyborg replacements and Eldar only do it for the literally dead souls stored in spirit stones, but it doesn't make sense in Starcraft since reverse engineering is used all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I'm guessing the reason why it isn't like this is because they did try it at one point and they eventually became what the Purifiers were (cue AI/robot rebellion)...
    According to the development history of the dragoon, it was originally intended to be a wholly robotic unit. In fact, the protoss were originally intended to be a robotic race before this was changed.

    I never liked the purifier backstory. There are countless books on Earth that explore these sorts of scenarios. Real life AI researchers constantly discuss the dangers of AI and how we should avoid it. The behavior regarding the purifiers makes the Conclave look really stupid. There's no reason why purifiers cannot be respected as the resurrected dead (at least until they get downloaded into clones).

    Furthermore, the protoss look really incompetent in terms of tech knowhow. Apparently they're advanced enough to do all sorts of crazy stuff, but their medicine cannot replace limbs at all? Are they cargo culting everything even worse than the Adeptus Mechanicus?

    I dislike the new protoss backstory because it doesn't make any sense and is just plain lame. I liked them better in the SC1 manual when they actually knew how their own tech worked, were even more advanced than the xel'naga, and weren't dying space elves long past their prime. I liked the blooming civilization aspect because it subverted genre expectations of space elves being dying has-beens.

    Also, having a big empire makes it much easier to justify having lots of inhabited protoss planets to use as battlefields. In canon their numbers are completely inconsistent since they're supposed to be dying out yet have arbitrarily endless armies and colonies. If they were a huge empire of thriving people, then it would make sense to have arbitrarily vast reserves.

    Quote Originally Posted by drakolobo View Post
    I interpret this new faction as a very primitive version of the protoss, well as a way of thinking closer to the protoss before being abandoned by the Xelnagas has had access to a very advanced technology, and merely manages it because it is very intuitive but does not fully understand it, so interpret as divine, something like the mechanicum cult in W40k,so it presents highly ritualistic and superstitious behavior beyond what is seen even in the Taldarim
    This completely retcons everything about their backstory in the SC1 manual. Back then they not only knew how their own tech worked (or reverse engineered), but they advanced even further than the xel'naga using what they were taught.

    The current canon protoss are already cargo culting and have no idea how to replicate their own tech. Somehow. It's inconsistent because other times they do invent new tech so I have no idea what's going on. This isn't a good way to distinguish the ihanrii, either.

    The ihanrii being cargo cultists wouldn't make sense if they never lost their knowledge due to the Aeon of Strife like the other protoss did. Yet their skin lore makes them out to be literal space elves with magic runes and golems and whathaveyou.

    If I wasn't already highly critical of protoss lore, then this would be the breaking point for me. The ihanrii are a conceptual mess that mix bits and pieces of other protoss factions seemingly in complete ignorance of how the other factions work. At several points they are described as using literal magic, like runes and golems.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    It says this in the dark templar unit re-skin:
    Huh.

    Golden Age Warp Prism:
    Ancient Templar warp prisms featured a distinctive crystal lattice that would sometimes reflect the neural patterns of the warriors they transport.
    What!? They didn't EXIST until the second great war! D:

    I'm sorry, but the Golden Age skin set is probably the single laziest reskin set I've ever seen...
    Last edited by Visions of Khas; 08-19-2019 at 03:50 PM.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  9. #29

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Huh.



    What!? They didn't EXIST until the second great war! D:

    I'm sorry, but the Golden Age skin set is probably the single laziest reskin set I've ever seen...
    I noticed that the ihanrii and golden age skins suggest that almost all protoss units existed in the distant past. Itís a clear contradiction but this is Blizzard.

    Iím working on AU proposals and I reconciled this by stating that the first age empire already discovered everything and the current protoss have reverse engineered that or developed identical applications independently.

  10. #30

    Default Re: Stalker Lore Question

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I noticed that the ihanrii and golden age skins suggest that almost all protoss units existed in the distant past. It’s a clear contradiction but this is Blizzard.

    I’m working on AU proposals and I reconciled this by stating that the first age empire already discovered everything and the current protoss have reverse engineered that or developed identical applications independently.
    What have you got so far for the AU ideas?

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