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Thread: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

  1. #11

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    All this requires is a more open mind and a slight turn to fantasy (thus it will require some creative thinking) to turn the BS away, you know
    What..? no that's not at all what I want, less fantasy more sci fi.

    The fantasy aspect needs to be downplayed and reserved largely for Psionic powers, sure it would require more creative thinking but frankly any significant change to the story would.

  2. #12

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    Ok, then for curiosity's sake, why do you accept it just fine in the psionic powers category for fantasy?

  3. #13

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserStratosTygo View Post
    What..? no that's not at all what I want, less fantasy more sci fi.

    The fantasy aspect needs to be downplayed and reserved largely for Psionic powers, sure it would require more creative thinking but frankly any significant change to the story would.
    I agree. However, I think what you mean isn't so much less fantasy as more grounding and rationality in the world building. Whether you call them psychic powers, they're still magic and the difference is in the presentation. Even a generic fantasy setting could appear like scifi if you present it as such.

    For example, psychic waves can be produced with technology such as psi-emitters and psi-disrupters. In fact certain applications, such as psychic jamming, are only feasible with industrial engineering.

    The psychic powers are still subject to Sanderson's laws of magic (a writing technique). Psychic powers need some kind of logic behind their workings or predictable limitations otherwise they risk becoming a deus ex machina. IMO, an easy way to do this is to introduce realistic arms races as an important plot point: whenever one side develops a new weapon, the otherwise develops a countermeasure, ad nauseum.

  4. #14

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I agree. However, I think what you mean isn't so much less fantasy as more grounding and rationality in the world building. Whether you call them psychic powers, they're still magic and the difference is in the presentation. Even a generic fantasy setting could appear like scifi if you present it as such.

    For example, psychic waves can be produced with technology such as psi-emitters and psi-disrupters. In fact certain applications, such as psychic jamming, are only feasible with industrial engineering.

    The psychic powers are still subject to Sanderson's laws of magic (a writing technique). Psychic powers need some kind of logic behind their workings or predictable limitations otherwise they risk becoming a deus ex machina. IMO, an easy way to do this is to introduce realistic arms races as an important plot point: whenever one side develops a new weapon, the otherwise develops a countermeasure, ad nauseum.
    Tell me something Mislag, have you EVER tolerated even the occasional Deus Ex Machina in the SC universe? Because even back in the SC1 and BW days you can't say it was devoid of that.

  5. #15

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Tell me something Mislag, have you EVER tolerated even the occasional Deus Ex Machina in the SC universe? Because even back in the SC1 and BW days you can't say it was devoid of that.
    Deus ex machina is a classic example of bad writing.

    I said plenty of times that the writing of SC1 and BW wasn't great because Metzen was clearly making it up as he went along. Rebel Yell had the strongest writing (although it still suffered from the psi-emitter being a blatant plot device), but after that the alien campaigns fell apart.

  6. #16

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    At some point you'll write yourself into a corner (however small) where you can't really explain it away. Even you have to have seen sci-fi novels (and I'm not talking the SC ones) get into that situation.

  7. #17

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    At some point you'll write yourself into a corner (however small) where you can't really explain it away. Even you have to have seen sci-fi novels (and I'm not talking the SC ones) get into that situation.
    That doesn't happen to every writer and when it does it is a result of sloppiness.

    Starcraft is low hanging fruit, so you can't use it as a standard.

  8. #18

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    You can argue it that way, but not everything is meant to be explained away via logic. Granted, too much deus ex machina is also bad....

  9. #19

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    You can argue it that way, but not everything is meant to be explained away via logic. Granted, too much deus ex machina is also bad....
    That sort of attitude will not get you very far in the literary world. The literary world universally agrees that any amount of deus ex machina is bad because it removes all tension from the story and destroys the audience's suspension of disbelief. But I digress.

    My original point is that the Starcraft story is shlock and no amount of contrived excuses will change that. Blatant retcons, maybe. Amon is probably the least of the story's problems (the heroes being sociopathic morons is arguably worse), but I'll focus on him in particular here. You keep talking about how the Amon backstory makes sense, but you never provide any explanation. You have never once shown that his backstory can be salvaged. Somebody else has beat you too it.

    Lord22 on fanfiction.net has written some adaptations of the Starcraft game campaigns that, among other things, try to reconcile the retcons with more retcons. The reconciliation for the Amon retcon? The Overmind was never under Amon's control, because his attempt to control it failed and it exterminated the xel'naga in self-defense. Amon wanted to replace the xel'naga with his mindless slaves, the hybrids. The Overmind wanted to create a new generation of xel'naga who would be even cooler than the last and would replace the previous infinite cycle with a Mass Effect-esque harvesting cycle.

    It is a decent attempt at salvaging the canon plot outline. I still dislike retreads of the canon plot outline because it simply was never very good to begin given the immense possibility of the premise, but I have to give Lord22 credit for the work done so far. Also, his critiques of the canon plot are hilarious to read.

  10. #20

    Default Re: What if SC1/BW was remade as DLC for SC2?

    I never read from Lord22 on ff.net

    As for the whole salvaging, last I checked you just wanted to smash the whole thing and start over from scratch anyway

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