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Thread: Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

  1. #1

    Default Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

    I might get flak for this but I just feel that Starcraft II isnít fun to watch at all. Iíve been watching SC1 Vods, and even mediocre games are much more fun to watch than Starcraft 2 battlereports (although they are on a level of fun, they just arenít that exciting)

    One reason I suppose is due to the ease of information. The screen is just cluttered with information. SC2 is akeen to American Football rather than Soccer. Where each play is displayed out next to the screen, cluttering the actual game. I really donít care what theyíre building. I just want to see the game and draw out my on conclusions. Plus it kinda takes the surprise away when you know how they did it. I donít think the Korean commentator ever said ďoh look, heís researching shield now.Ē Kinda gives the trick away if the commentators can simply spit out the build order.

    When I watch SC2, Iím flooded with HP bars. I hate it when during a battle, they turn on HP bars to see how fast the HP is draining. I donít care! I want to see the actual battles! Itís not like during the world cup, when Brazil is on offence, the commentators attach a running speed indicator to every single player right before they score. Itís annoying and pointless. And since the health bars cover parts of the top of the unit, itís even more annoying.

    Another reason is the speed of the gameplay. Itís simply too fast. Guns fire super fast, Marauders launch their grenades 2 times a second. Siege tank seems to have no reload time in normal mode. Everything just happens way too fast for me to really get into it. Even the storm is like BAM and itís over. Itís not really a storm, more like a lightning strike.

    One thing that irritates me is that strategies arenít that ďcreativeĒ. The nuke, in BR4, felt boring. Unlike the Nuke in the originalÖ it just feltÖ over designed. The target designator is a completely stupid idea. Gives no sense of suspense, when is it gonna drop? I dunno? Well, now I knowÖ since the crosshairs havenít touched yet.

    The gameplay seems to only be oh what is the response to one strategy. Terran siege tank droppedÖ whatís the responseÖ etc etc. Itís like theyíve got these plays down (a la NFL) and itís textbook play to do what ever DB says you should do.

    Another thing is the art design. In SC1, the readability of units was ridiculously amazing. Even in large armies, you could instantly count at a glance how many units there were. And even when the fight got on to Zerg creep, it was still incredibly clear. SC2 is quite a few steps backwards. With the advent on Blob pathfinding, you are literally just watching a blob units go from on area to the next. In SC1, the units would go line by line or spread out way further than required. Not only did this slow the gameplay somewhat, it made some pathfinding blocks funny (for instance, in one video the ghost blocked a zergling.. and in that split moment, you could feel the play going ďomg omg did he notice that?Ē)

    Iím sure this is still incredibly premature to call Starcraft II out on anything. And the gameplay of SC2 probably wonít be as amazing as SC1 until the first or second expansion comes out (maybe even a few years after that). But I hope SC2 wonít fall into the same category as War3. Fun to play, but boring to watch.

    The 2v2 Blizzcon games were fun to watch though. Hopefully SC2 is headed towards that kind of future.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

    So let me get this straight. Giving the watcher of a game information on what is happening in that game... this is bad?

    To me, the excitement of when a nuke strikes isn't about the fact that I don't have a timeframe for when it's coming down. It's about "is the opposing player going to find the Ghost and kill it first?" Or "is the player going to evac his units in time?"

    I just don't see how concealing information about what is going on in a game is a good thing.

    In televised matches, the observers are always finding ways to provide the viewer with information. They frequently select units to see whether the player has gotten a particular upgrade. And so on. Indeed, they added various hacks to the game specifically so that they can see what resources each player has, what units have been built, etc.

    So there's clearly a desire on the part of broadcasters to provide this kind of information. All Blizzard has done is make it available.

    As for health bars, I honestly have no idea what you're talking about. They help show which units are low on health vs. which aren't. In a set of small-unit micro, this is critical to understanding what's going on.
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    "We want to focus the player on making interesting choices and not just a bunch of different klicks." - Dustin Browder

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Starcraft 2 isn’t fun to watch...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wankey View Post
    I don’t think the Korean commentator ever said “oh look, he’s researching shield now.”
    This is the point where your post became unfit for consideration.


  4. #4

    Default Re: Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wankey View Post
    Another reason is the speed of the gameplay. Itís simply too fast. Guns fire super fast, Marauders launch their grenades 2 times a second. Siege tank seems to have no reload time in normal mode. Everything just happens way too fast for me to really get into it. Even the storm is like BAM and itís over. Itís not really a storm, more like a lightning strike.

    Another thing is the art design. In SC1, the readability of units was ridiculously amazing. Even in large armies, you could instantly count at a glance how many units there were. And even when the fight got on to Zerg creep, it was still incredibly clear. SC2 is quite a few steps backwards. With the advent on Blob pathfinding, you are literally just watching a blob units go from on area to the next.
    I agree with these 2 points but things like

    The gameplay seems to only be oh what is the response to one strategy. Terran siege tank droppedÖ whatís the responseÖ etc etc. Itís like theyíve got these plays down (a la NFL) and itís textbook play to do what ever DB says you should do.
    and

    One reason I suppose is due to the ease of information. The screen is just cluttered with information. SC2 is akeen to American Football rather than Soccer. Where each play is displayed out next to the screen, cluttering the actual game. I really donít care what theyíre building. I just want to see the game and draw out my on conclusions. Plus it kinda takes the surprise away when you know how they did it. I donít think the Korean commentator ever said ďoh look, heís researching shield now.Ē Kinda gives the trick away if the commentators can simply spit out the build order.
    Have you ever watched pro SC with English commentators? I suggest you go watch some games from Diggitysc's youtube channel, hes an excellent commentator and they catch just about everything, they just don't make it sound super spoon fed like the BR commentators do. (and completely set up and over practiced.)
    Sonic: [dressed as a cop] Let me speak to the driver.
    Grounder: I'm not driving. He is!
    Scratch: No I'm not.
    Sonic: Driving without a driver? Now you're really in for it.

    Sonic: You know? I sure have fun.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

    Diggitysc's youtube channel
    I Love Diggity! But don’t forget Cholera, Klaz, Rise, Moltrap and the rest.


    Back with all gun's blazing.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wankey View Post
    The gameplay seems to only be oh what is the response to one strategy. Terran siege tank droppedÖ whatís the responseÖ etc etc. Itís like theyíve got these plays down (a la NFL) and itís textbook play to do what ever DB says you should do.
    That sentence proves you haven't the FAINTEST idea about the NFL. Why, just last year they invented a new play formation called the WildCat. Every year teams experiment with new play calls, new defense formations, new this and new that. From one year to the next you can NEVER guess exactly how the divisions are going to play out. You have your great teams, sure, but it's impossible to guess divisions anymore. The Patriots aren't guaranteed wins anymore, so really only the Colts can you assume they're going to win. Absolutely nobody guessed the Broncos would get so far without a loss this season. It's always different.

    My biggest problem with watching SC2 so far is that the battlereports...I hate the commentators. Let's be honest with ourselves, Dustin may be a great designer but he is a TERRIBLE (terrible damage) commentator! The other guy's voice is annoying, and quite frankly I find myself having to switch off the sound. Which is sad, because I still don't know what the nuke sounds like.
    Without a home. Without a people. Without mercy. The Arcani

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  7. #7

    Default Re: Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zabimaru View Post
    I Love Diggity! But don’t forget Cholera, Klaz, Rise, Moltrap and the rest.
    lol yeah that's true, they are all very exceptional commentators, I would REALLY love it if Blizzard had Diggity or Cholera commentate BR5 =P

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyvik View Post
    My biggest problem with watching SC2 so far is that the battlereports...I hate the commentators. Let's be honest with ourselves, Dustin may be a great designer but he is a TERRIBLE (terrible damage) commentator! The other guy's voice is annoying, and quite frankly I find myself having to switch off the sound. Which is sad, because I still don't know what the nuke sounds like.
    YES they are TERRIBLE and I can't stand it anymore!
    Sonic: [dressed as a cop] Let me speak to the driver.
    Grounder: I'm not driving. He is!
    Scratch: No I'm not.
    Sonic: Driving without a driver? Now you're really in for it.

    Sonic: You know? I sure have fun.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

    Quote Originally Posted by Xyvik View Post
    That sentence proves you haven't the FAINTEST idea about the NFL. Why, just last year they invented a new play formation called the WildCat. Every year teams experiment with new play calls, new defense formations, new this and new that. From one year to the next you can NEVER guess exactly how the divisions are going to play out. You have your great teams, sure, but it's impossible to guess divisions anymore. The Patriots aren't guaranteed wins anymore, so really only the Colts can you assume they're going to win. Absolutely nobody guessed the Broncos would get so far without a loss this season. It's always different.
    You just proved my point. I donít want to hear anything about any plays. You just told me there are a million plays. I DONíT want to know any of them. Itís like every card has a counter card to play (well, you can think of new cards BUT I Donít care!) Your second part is unrelated to what I was saying.

    I watch sports for the game. Not, ooh theyíre going to do XZ play, what is minnesota going to counter with? Iíve never heard this in Soccer. Iíve never heard the commentators going ďBrazil is doing a deep strike, Italy will do a light defend.Ē Itís all fluid, itís all about how you act and react on the fly.

    Itís so much more of a fluid game when ďplaysĒ arenít defined and they happen oh so quickly. SC2 feels like itís just the same play. Thereís no real variation. From the BR, itís just push push push. Build an assortment of units, and push. Very little micro required. BR4 introduced the tank drop, whoop dee doo. Like we havenít seen that before. The problem is we havenít really seen the greater SC2 strategies. These guys are STILL playing with SC1 in mind. Where are the marine + medivac drops? Where is the bunker push + salvage? Where is the massed ghost harass? or dark templar for that matter? Or even immortals. By the time they come on the field, the gameís GG.

    I suppose we can blame the battlereports for this. The games arenít actually very interesting, they donít try flanking maneuvres, drops, or any kind of interesting gameplay strategies. They merely resource, expand, harass with workersÖ And do a big battle or just over mass the other guy.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

    Someone here has noticed some in-game flaws except macro related ones? tís quite an achievement lol

    Yes, at this point the game is boringly uninteresting compared to SCBW: unitsí cluttering, insane gameplay speed, undeveloped meta, mostly boring units and abilities, weak immersion/realism features, practically inexistent Ďnaturalí micro, artificial macro and etc. have made this game pretty unpleasant to watch.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Starcraft 2 isnít fun to watch...

    Quote Originally Posted by Wankey View Post
    ...
    I watch sports for the game. Not, ooh theyíre going to do XZ play, what is minnesota going to counter with? Iíve never heard this in Soccer. Iíve never heard the commentators going ďBrazil is doing a deep strike, Italy will do a light defend.Ē Itís all fluid, itís all about how you act and react on the fly.
    It's not fluid or on the fly, korean TV simply skips the explanations since everyone know by heart every damn counter in the game already. They don't have to say "oh, terran is going mech so protoss is probably gonna use zeal bomb on top of tanks", it's an old game and everyone knows the counters. They will only comment on unusual counters, cheese or specially good micro.

    Soccer commentators would also say "Italy overcommited to the offensive, now they have a hard time stopping this counter", it's all the same. A generic, obvious strategic remark. By the way, I'm brazilian, soccer is on TV all the friggin time here (and no, I don't like soccer).

    What yor are complaining about really is the excessive narrative details, and you have to understand they are not doing it to the Łber hardcore fans that watched 10000 korean replays, they are trying to make replay watching at higher lv play a acessive thing for new players (and old SC casual players), so they will explain pretty obvious choices the players make, yes.

    The information (the game displays) itself is great, it allows you to keep informed on a lot of stuff that is happening. I don't know about you, but I also watch replays that don't have professional comments, and I'd love to watch a replay of a game I lost just ONE time because I can spot my mistakes at once instead of having to wander what went wrong all the time till I click some unit/construction at random.

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