Page 16 of 16 FirstFirst ... 6141516
Results 151 to 156 of 156

Thread: Reboot the franchise? What direction would you go?

  1. #151

    Default Re: Reboot the franchise? What direction would you go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I strongly suspect the reason why the fanbase has been dying out is due in part to the terrible storytelling, and not just the general decline of traditional RTS.
    The only aspect of the fanbase that is dying out are those interested in the lore/fluff. Blizz games are generally still fun to play and people still do, so they're hardly dying out in that regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Otherwise, Blizzard wouldn't be currently investing so much money in remastering WC3 if they didn't think they would recoup their investment from a dying market.
    Remasters are just another way for them to wring more money from the nostalgic (sequels being the more usual route). In some ways, they can be more effective (and more efficient/profitable for the maker) in doing that than a sequel - and even moreso, if a sequel that came before it wasn't what the nostalgics were looking for... *insert conspiracy theory here*

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    not the unrepentant moron he was in canon.
    Don't lie. He repented in the Eye of the Storm.

    Also, how was Aldaris "moronic" (or more moronic) compared to say, Tassadar's actions? Had Tassadar stuck to just burning worlds and fighting the Zerg at a distance, none of what befell the Protoss in Sc1 would've likely happened. In some regard, Aldaris is a more sensible person than Tassadar was; it just so happened that things didn't happen to go his way (which is hardly his fault) whereas it improbably did for Tass. Sure, Aldaris was an antagonist but he was never villainous.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  2. #152

    Default Re: Reboot the franchise? What direction would you go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Don't lie. He repented in the Eye of the Storm.

    Also, how was Aldaris "moronic" (or more moronic) compared to say, Tassadar's actions? Had Tassadar stuck to just burning worlds and fighting the Zerg at a distance, none of what befell the Protoss in Sc1 would've likely happened. In some regard, Aldaris is a more sensible person than Tassadar was; it just so happened that things didn't happen to go his way (which is hardly his fault) whereas it improbably did for Tass. Sure, Aldaris was an antagonist but he was never villainous.
    Episode 3 is easily the weakest story in Starcraft 1. Aldaris' apology didn't seem genuine to me and felt more like it was forced by the writer due to the campaign ending approaching.

    Tassadar only looks like an idiot because the writer wasted perfectly good plot hooks. He was originally stated to be doing so out of compassion for humanity, but this never plays a role in the plot other than a forced alliance with Raynor because the writer decided to magically solve the first contact war in the first act.

    If I was writing Starcraft, I would keep the story focused entirely on the Terran sector and politics there. The terran politics are all over the place what with three major governments (that we know of!), a rebel alliance, and numerous independent colonies. The protoss expedition fleets have their schism between the genocidal faction and the compassionate faction (which I have referred to as conservative and progressive); the dark protoss are a complete wildcard. The zerg are trying to continue harvesting operations whilst fighting off enemies and psychic warfare that fractures broods.

    You could build an entire multimedia franchise around that, with countless characters starring in their own campaigns, and people would probably continue to like it for years after it was published like they do for other healthy fandoms. Instead, the terrible storytelling strangled the fandom.

    The most creative stories I ever see are in custom campaigns that ignore the canon, made by people who don't even seem to know that much about canon either. (Which is strange because there's an entire wiki about it that you can reference for context.)

    Annihilation features a "psi-emitter" which produces sound waves that attract zerg and controls them with an engineered cyborg parasite. That's not how a psi-emitter works at all, but I can't exactly complain about it because it's just technobabble to explain how the villains are enslaving zerg. The bigger problem is that the heroes are purely reactionary, but the writing is still leagues better than Blizzard's because the characters are consistent and don't act like psychotic morons.

    Ignos features an independent tribe of Daelaam who aren't associated with the other protoss and didn't lose the Khala. They're being invaded by zerg who want to eat them or something and when they visit other planets to find the macguffin that will turn the tide, they encounter primal zerg infesting the planet because that's apparently a thing now. The writing is paper thin and exists solely to tie the missions together, but it's still better than Blizzard's.

    In the written fanfiction, there are few stories that aren't about Kerry and the few that do exist are either strangled by the canon or have absolutely no relation whatsoever (like the self-inserts). The setting just doesn't seem to interest most writers, probably because Blizzard didn't care about it either.

    Meanwhile, even the Warcraft fandom is more creative despite how utterly absurd the lore has become. The most popular stories in the Warcraft category are wildly more creative with regard to the setting compared to the Starcraft category. This is probably because Blizzard clearly lavished magnitudes more care on World of Warcraft, and if they made a Starcraft MMO we would see a corresponding burst of creativity in that category.

    Of course, there might be loads of great Korean fanfiction considering the games' popularity in South Korea which is inaccessible to me because I do not understand Korean. Is there anybody here who speaks Korean and could give a rough overview of the fanfiction in Korean?

    By the way, I found a book on google called "Tempest of the Battlefield" originally from China which explicitly uses the word "zergs" to refer to alien bugs fought by humanity. It doesn't seem to be related to Starcraft at all beyond using that name. Go figure.

  3. #153

    Default Re: Reboot the franchise? What direction would you go?

    Some journalist just praised the story as being “immersive” and filled with “incredible characters”.

    https://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/11...ve-first-look/

    Did this guy even play the games? The setting isn’t remotely immersive and the characters are flat as cardboard. It’s mediocre and shlocky as hell. Even the fandom doesn’t care for the story, since pretty much all discussion has degenerated into criticizing Raynor and Kerry as psychopathic morons while exalting Mengsk for maintaining composure in the face of evil alien invasion.

    Oh, and Blizzard is now falling apart according to employees. Better back up the website Q&A blogs and short stories and other promo materials before it goes offline, if you still care.

  4. #154

    Default Re: Reboot the franchise? What direction would you go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Episode 3 is easily the weakest story in Starcraft 1.
    I thought you said Episode 2 was the weakest story (which I, too, have always felt the same as well... in spite of the Zerg being my favourite). This hyperbole makes it hard to treat your position seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Tassadar only looks like an idiot because the writer wasted perfectly good plot hooks. He was originally stated to be doing so out of compassion for humanity, but this never plays a role in the plot other than a forced alliance with Raynor because the writer decided to magically solve the first contact war in the first act.
    Tassadar had no specific compassion for humanity. He just felt guilty after killing a species that he felt he should be protecting, which in turn, was how he interpreted following the Dae-Uhl. Maybe that's why he got along with Raynor, since Raynor too participated in atrocities (even if it was just passively condoning the use of Psi Emitters/not doing anything like leaving before the Psi emitters were used, he's compromised ethically) before feeling guilty/having his conscience get to him (albeit for a selfishly specific reason in the form of losing a specific individual).

    Also, I'm not here to say Tassadar's actions were "idiotic" as that is an unhelpful, hind-sight biased and reductionist way of observing things. It was a reasoned but compromised decision to not just burn Tarsonis at the time that just happen to also have far reaching and unexpectedly severe consequences he couldn't foresee. But, compared to Aldaris'/the Conclave's original orders of continuing to burn worlds (which was highly effective and had no known objective detriment), Tassadar's decision to not burn Tarsonis would be more unwise of the two options.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  5. #155

    Default Re: Reboot the franchise? What direction would you go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I thought you said Episode 2 was the weakest story (which I, too, have always felt the same as well... in spite of the Zerg being my favourite). This hyperbole makes it hard to treat your position seriously.
    Both are much weaker than the terran campaign. Unhappy Anchovy's analysis judged the protoss campaign as the weakest, but I was biased because I always liked the zerg more.


    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Tassadar had no specific compassion for humanity. He just felt guilty after killing a species that he felt he should be protecting, which in turn, was how he interpreted following the Dae-Uhl. Maybe that's why he got along with Raynor, since Raynor too participated in atrocities (even if it was just passively condoning the use of Psi Emitters/not doing anything like leaving before the Psi emitters were used, he's compromised ethically) before feeling guilty/having his conscience get to him (albeit for a selfishly specific reason in the form of losing a specific individual).

    Also, I'm not here to say Tassadar's actions were "idiotic" as that is an unhelpful, hind-sight biased and reductionist way of observing things. It was a reasoned but compromised decision to not just burn Tarsonis at the time that just happen to also have far reaching and unexpectedly severe consequences he couldn't foresee. But, compared to Aldaris'/the Conclave's original orders of continuing to burn worlds (which was highly effective and had no known objective detriment), Tassadar's decision to not burn Tarsonis would be more unwise of the two options.
    The problem is that the campaigns were written as plot-driven rather than character-driven (i.e. characters act to advance the plot rather than whatever makes sense based on their characterization and the circumstances they encounter) and Metzen clearly didn't know how to get the plot from point A to point B. Thus we ended up with a much worse plot than we otherwise would have if Metzen didn't have to follow such obvious mandates.

    We can see this by comparing Insurrection, which is noticeably better plotted. That does not make it good by any stretch, as the developer clearly had no budget and no understanding of map design. It is just better plotted because it did not suffer the same tumultuous development as Episodes 1-3 did. An amateur writer got the manual and license from Blizzard and spun a plot from that.

    So trying to argue from hindsight is pointless because the plot doesn't make sense anyway. The psi-emitter is a blatant plot device and the zerg conquer planets because of writer fiat rather than any actual work on their part. The setup in the manual is cliche as hell, but it wasn't completely terrible and could have worked in the hands of a better writer. Metzen clearly wasn't cut out for that and he wrote a terrible implementation of what he was given to work with, assuming that the manual was even finished when he wrote the script (and it probably wasn't).

    If I had to rewrite the story, I would take into account that the manual stated Tassadar promised never to glass another planet and that the zerg were looking to assimilate humanity's psychic potential and had to do so subtly. So Tassadar wouldn't glass planets and the zerg wouldn't steamroll all opposition.

    Trying to figure out how the Battle of Chau Sara went down in a rational universe is enough of a challenge given all the conflicting information about it, I don't need plot contrivances turning the story into a farce.




    Speaking of the psi-emitter, I can't work it into any kind of rational plot without adding additional contrivances.

    Rationally speaking, the psi-emitter is a glorified signal beacon that broadcasts on psychic channels used by the zerg. It doesn't seem to be detectable to terrans or protoss unless they are specifically listening on the same channels (telepathy seems to work on similar principles to radio, including having different channels).

    Now, if the zerg are in the sector to harvest psychics in mass like they've done for every other species they've encountered, why would they sent such large detachments to investigate a beacon? We know they understand the concept of beacons because they used beacons to signal both the Gargantis proximae and the unspecified Behemoths to meet with them.

    Liberty's Crusade (which plugs some, but not all, plot holes in Episode 1) still has Mengsk speculating that the Confederacy lured the zerg with psi-emitters while knowing they are actually aliens rather than a Confederate creation. This leads me to suspect the possibility that the zerg's deep space probes might very well have been lured by some precursor to the later psi-emitter experiments. I'm not a professor of meta-neural study, but it sounds perfectly reasonable to me that if you discovered telepathy that operated on similar principles to radio then you would explore its applications for long-range communication including FTL where possible.

    The zerg should be aware of the Confederacy's experiments on them as well, considering their species-wide telepathic network. If zerg are being abducted by terrans, they should logically have some memory of that occurring. From there it makes sense to investigate what the terrans are doing.

    So when the First Contact War starts in a rational universe, the zerg should be aware that the Confederacy created beacons that broadcast on psychic frequencies. Why exactly would they waste unnecessary amounts of resources investigating a trap they used themselves when they could be harvesting psychics from populated areas?

    The explanations I've heard or devised myself are all unsatisfactory:
    1. Investigating obvious beacon just because
    2. That particular message is a telepathic binaural beat (i.e. alien catnip)
    3. The signal obscures individual psychics, like fireflies against the sun


    #1 isn't an explanation at all. Even if it would make sense to investigate unknown signals, that doesn't justify huge expenses when you don't even know what it is.

    #2 is implausible because binaural beats cannot replicate the effects of chemical drugs. It might be possible to transmit a virus or prion through zerg telepathy by taking advantage of the fact that they transmit genes telepathically. However, the xel'naga already had that capability through their psychic link with the zerg and the zerg later adapted around that danger so it is clearly not that reliable a vector.

    #3 raises even more issues because it is jamming specifically terran psychic channels. Not only should it obscure terran psychics from the zerg, but also from each other. It might even obscure reading the minds of non-psychics too.

    These problems come into play because I am thinking about psychic powers rationally. Not in terms of modern science, but in terms of them having consistent rules to avoid contradictions. The rules as I have figured them just operate analogously to radio.

    One of the implications of a rational universe is the concept of arm's races. What this means is that no weapon is unstoppable and no defense is impenetrable. Thus, opposing forces constantly have to race to produce better arms and armor.

    Anything that is functionally unstoppable/impenetrable has drawbacks which come into play if both sides are equivalent. This includes nuclear weapons and sensor jamming. A nuclear war will destroy both sides. Sensor jamming goes both ways, because blinding your enemies' sensors will blind your own on the same channel.

    And I haven't gotten started on other applications of radio like the difference between active and passive sensing, target painting, and so forth. (The scifi series The Expanse regularly uses these concepts.)

    Which also reminds me... if the primordial zerg evolved "psychic sensitivity" (i.e. telepathy), then does that mean they could detect minds (or at least nervous signals like sharks and electric eels do?)? I mean, that would come in handy if you are trying to find a host's central nervous system or something.

  6. #156

    Default Re: Reboot the franchise? What direction would you go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I was biased because I always liked the zerg more.
    That didn't stop me from recognising Episode II/Overmind being narratively and technically the weakest in terms of storytelling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    The problem is that the campaigns were written as plot-driven rather than character-driven (i.e. characters act to advance the plot rather than whatever makes sense based on their characterization and the circumstances they encounter)
    Eh, mileage varies. In any regard, Sc1 is way more character-driven that Sc2 was. Rebel Yell is largely a plot that is largely about and driven wholly by Mengsk. Overmind is all about you-know-who. The Fall is all about the consequences arising from Tassadars previous and ongoing actions. For Sc2, WoL was about Raynor being pulled into a shopping list of tasks and then suddenly foisted the task of saving the sector out-of-the-blue. HotS is actually more consistently character-driven but the "revenge" motivation was plot-derived due to the "clarification" of Kerrigan and Raynor having always being lovers that they'd do anything for in death or life. LotV is plot-driven by a huge big-bad that comes out of nowhere and needs to be beaten to avoid galactic ruin.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    The psi-emitter is a blatant plot device and the zerg conquer planets because of writer fiat rather than any actual work on their part.
    Plot devices, like any trope, are not inherently bad. Only how they're used. The Psi-emitter is actually a decently used plot device since what it actually does is largely less significant/important thematically than the reactions it promotes from those use it or consider the consequences of its use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Speaking of the psi-emitter, I can't work it into any kind of rational plot without adding additional contrivances.
    The Psi-emitter is way less egregious of a plot device than say, the Psi-Disruptor is, in terms of utility in the narrative. Like I said, what it actually does and how it moves the plot is/should be less important than how it influences the characters around it. The Psi-disruptor is more of the former compared to the Psi emitter, which is why it sticks out more as a "bad" plot device.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

Similar Threads

  1. Hypothetical Reboot?
    By Undeadprotoss in forum StarCraft II Discussion
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 01-18-2017, 04:32 AM
  2. New Map/Tilesets - Art Direction?
    By Undeadprotoss in forum StarCraft II Discussion
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 11-10-2015, 01:34 PM
  3. StarCraft II Dark Templar Art Direction
    By DemolitionSquid in forum StarCraft II Discussion
    Replies: 158
    Last Post: 06-18-2009, 06:05 PM
  4. New MMO is officialy a NEW franchise.
    By sandwich_bird in forum Off-Topic Lounge
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 05-19-2009, 03:52 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •