Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 95

Thread: 20 years of Starcraft

  1. #1

    Default 20 years of Starcraft

    IGN has posted an interview with Chris Metzen and Sam Didier.

    Some of this stuff isn't probably new to many of you but here's the shorter version:

    Kerrigan was never conceived to be a villain in Sc1 nor was redemption ever a possibility for her in BW. Her role in the narrative was to represent a "loss for the hero" and to help personify the Zerg.

    The UED were to have a bigger role in BW, culminating with the Zerg invading Earth. The UED were going to be "a really big theme that was going to define the Starcraft franchise" but the "grand plan got walked back" for unspecified reasons.

    Apparently, the idea of bringing in fourth franchise power during the development of Sc2 made less sense over time.

    The way Tassadar sacrifices himself was not pre-planned. That end cinematic was created last and the only one to reflect the written story whilst in all other cinematics, the story was written and/or changed to reflect them.

    At one point in the early stages of development, the Protoss were more insectoid and Zerg-like in appearance.


    Personal commentary:

    The UED thing would've been interesting had they gone ahead with that, given how poor the concept of the UED were implemented in BW (they are summarily introduced out of nowhere, have some apparent impact and lasting consequence only to have it actually have no consequence or their actions nullified so completely by the end that one could easily forget that they even existed).

    The fourth power being considered "making less sense" is odd considering the Hybrids were specifically created as sequelbait and a likely fourth power. This probably explains why the Hybrids feel so anemic in the end product of Sc2.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  2. #2

    Default Re: 20 years of Starcraft

    He pitched versions of the Dark Templar Dragoon for both Brood War and the N64 version of Starcraft. He created concept art for it and every time, it was scrapped. But in Starcraft II, the Dark Templar Dragoon became the Stalker and actually made it into the game. “Good ideas don’t die,” Didier says with a smile. “They just go into the sequel done ten years later.”
    Dark templar dragoons isn't that good of an idea imo. From a universe perspective it's alright but from a gameplay perspective it's just redundant if you're going to basically give it almost the same functionalities as a regular dragoon(minus the blink).

    But over the years, his opinion of Kerrigan and villains in general began to change. “The redemption of villains became near and dear to me. I loved that idea,” Metzen explains. He prominently explored this theme in Warcraft with both Arthas and Illidan. “Kerrigan was the heart and soul of it. The wicked Queen of Blades was not who she was. She never had a chance to be herself. She was always manipulated by one power or another.”
    lol. Well, even if he has a hard-on for redemptions, there's no excuse for how poorly it was done.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 20 years of Starcraft

    The wicked Queen of Blades was not who she was. She never had a chance to be herself. She was always manipulated by one power or another.”
    lol. Well, even if he has a hard-on for redemptions, there's no excuse for how poorly it was done.
    I love character development and change, especially in a universe of shades of grey. But to say "The wicked Queen of Blades was not who she was," is false. That's the whole point of redemption (see: Motherfucking Zuko). If you're going to say, "Well, yes, I did those things in the past, but that was actually somebody else," you're shucking off responsibility of your actions, which is the opposite of redemption. The Queen of Blades and Sarah Kerrigan are two facets of the same entity -- or, at least, they should have been.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  4. #4

    Default Re: 20 years of Starcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    I love character development and change, especially in a universe of shades of grey. But to say "The wicked Queen of Blades was not who she was," is false. That's the whole point of redemption (see: Motherfucking Zuko). If you're going to say, "Well, yes, I did those things in the past, but that was actually somebody else," you're shucking off responsibility of your actions, which is the opposite of redemption. The Queen of Blades and Sarah Kerrigan are two facets of the same entity -- or, at least, they should have been.
    This. Her memory loss was one of my top ten disappointments with the SC2 story. Though I'll admit that the only real redemption I ever wanted with Kerrigan is that she realizes what she's done, but is unable to return to humanity, and ultimately dies.

    As for the UED, I'm glad that they never got that big. I think that in any form they're ultimately a distraction from other characters/factions and bringing Earth into the mix means making Starcraft less original. Mengsk's Dominion, the Umojans, or the Kel-Morian Combine could have served the purpose that the UED ultimately did.


    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  5. #5

    Default Re: 20 years of Starcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    lol. Well, even if he has a hard-on for redemptions, there's no excuse for how poorly it was done.
    Plenty of people I've spoken to said they wanted redemption after the events of BW, and most of their ideas I remember turned out better compared to SC2. Blizzard should have redone the whole HotS storyline

  6. #6

    Default Re: 20 years of Starcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    This. Her memory loss was one of my top ten disappointments with the SC2 story. Though I'll admit that the only real redemption I ever wanted with Kerrigan is that she realizes what she's done, but is unable to return to humanity, and ultimately dies.
    The whole memory loss is exactly the reason I didn't put it in my fic back then. I felt it was too convienent, and in any case that in itself won't absolve anything. A person's actions does that, which Blizzard didn't do for HotS because they didn't understand how to develop her. Now, if in the near future they decide to try this again from WoL onwards and make HotS's story non-canon, I'll look at it again. That I expect will probably happen in 90 years or so.

  7. #7

    Default Re: 20 years of Starcraft

    Though I'll admit that the only real redemption I ever wanted with Kerrigan is that she realizes what she's done, but is unable to return to humanity, and ultimately dies.
    I agree. Any other kind of redemption would have been hard to pull off after brood war and that's the real problem. Speaking of Zuko, in Avatar, you always see a bit of his softer side or at least a glimpse of potential. This isn't the case with Kerrigan. She's only ever shown as pure evil. To make a believable redemption, you'd need something hard to hit her in the face. They tried to do at the end of WoL. And honestly, if you forget the artifact bs, the mind control and whatever other fluff they stuck up in there, it's not that bad. Taken in isolation, it goes something like this:

    Raynor and co lunch a suicide mission on Kerrigan. They manage to beat her up somehow. Raynor's holding a gun against her head, but, he can't bring himself to do it. He blames himself for what she became and at that moment realize that despite everything, he still has hope that maybe inside of the monster there is still the girl he loved. Tychus doesn't care for that bs and goes for the kill. Raynor tries to stop him but can only do so by shooting the guy(doesn't necessarily kill him). Witnessing at which length Raynor would go to save her, she regains some of her humanity.

    I honestly can live with that story piece in isolation. It's really everything else around it that makes it hard imo.

  8. #8

    Default Re: 20 years of Starcraft

    Witnessing at which length Raynor would go to save her, she regains some of her humanity.
    Or that could just push her further. She could be well aware of all the cruel shit she's done, and then to have Raynor defend the horrors she's committed could make her feel disgust towards him. I would have loved it if she had just stood up, laughed in his face, recounted how many millions she's killed, and then say something about how he's defending it all, and how that makes him just as monstrous, if not more so.

    Honestly, I just wanted to see the characters fucking break. I guess Game of Thrones has ruined me.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  9. #9

    Default Re: 20 years of Starcraft

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Or that could just push her further. She could be well aware of all the cruel shit she's done, and then to have Raynor defend the horrors she's committed could make her feel disgust towards him. I would have loved it if she had just stood up, laughed in his face, recounted how many millions she's killed, and then say something about how he's defending it all, and how that makes him just as monstrous, if not more so.

    Honestly, I just wanted to see the characters fucking break. I guess Game of Thrones has ruined me.
    In some ways that already happened in BW during Fenix's death, VoK. It was a shame they had to forget the whole thing in WoL.

  10. #10

    Default Re: 20 years of Starcraft

    How is Kerrigan's arc in Sc2 considered a redemption story when one considers the Queen of Blades as not being Kerrigan and that baseline Kerrigan was always good? Sc2 can't seem to decide whether Kerrigan and the Queen of Blades were the same/share the same responsibility for their actions because on one hand, if they were one and the same it badly wants to make a redemption story and throw in all the drama/angst associated with that; and on the other, it wants to distance the Queen of Blades from Kerrigan because the former's actions are only redeemable in a morally acceptable way if she died. And that can't happen because Kerrigan is the designated hero. It's weird how Kerrigan would feel shame for her actions and want to atone for them when she's confused and can't remember exactly what she did (because of denial or genuine amnesia?) but yet is able to eventually remember controlling the Zerg...

    I discussed about the potential incongruity/incompatibility of a deinfested Kerrigan seeking to be good but the need of the next story to be Zerg focused prior to HotS coming out. It's a pity HotS vindicated me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    Though I'll admit that the only real redemption I ever wanted with Kerrigan is that she realizes what she's done, but is unable to return to humanity, and ultimately dies.
    There is another way to do a redemption story and it doesn't have to be necessarily mean "being good" again or "balancing the scales". In keeping with the tone of the original Sc1, a dark redemption would've been a nice alternate solution.

    Like I said above, I realised the incompatibility of having Kerrigan being good again despite the next story after WoL being about Zerg even before HotS came out and I figured a solution that could work as a character piece for Kerrigan, explore her deinfested state a bit but still ultimately be about Zerg and be a redemption story of a sort. In this hypothetical, alternate HotS I would have the first third explore her intent to kill Mengsk and expore her skills and the ruthlessness as an assassin. This leads to her doing morally questionable things that ultimately alienate and revulse Raynor such that when she finally kills Mengsk in the first third of the story, she realises that she has always been a monster and will always be alone. This then leads her to go back to the Zerg via her own choice. If she is to be a monster inside, she'll be a monster on the outside as well, at least she'll be at home within the darkness and embrace it at last. The remaining two-thirds would then be her re-integration back into the Swarm and the growing threat of Duran/Narud against the Zerg which ends with his defeat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    As for the UED, I'm glad that they never got that big. I think that in any form they're ultimately a distraction from other characters/factions and bringing Earth into the mix means making Starcraft less original. Mengsk's Dominion, the Umojans, or the Kel-Morian Combine could have served the purpose that the UED ultimately did.
    I'm mixed about this. BW could've easily replaced the UED with the Dominion as you said and that would've been fine, but the thing is the UED was included, so one has to account for that and make sure there is consequence of their inclusion. In retrospect, they probably should've "gone home" in regard to the UED given how they came and went like a fart in the wind because they didn't "go hard" enough with the inclusion of the UED.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Raynor and co lunch a suicide mission on Kerrigan. They manage to beat her up somehow. Raynor's holding a gun against her head, but, he can't bring himself to do it. He blames himself for what she became and at that moment realize that despite everything, he still has hope that maybe inside of the monster there is still the girl he loved. Tychus doesn't care for that bs and goes for the kill. Raynor tries to stop him but can only do so by shooting the guy(doesn't necessarily kill him). Witnessing at which length Raynor would go to save her, she regains some of her humanity.
    I like this ending much better, however, it would need reworking earlier in the campaign in order for us to foreshadow this or foster some doubt as to which direction he'll go. As it is, from the very beginning of WoL, Raynor has lost his edge and will to kill Kerrigan judging by his pining over her picture and guilt dreams such that when Valerian arrives to conveniently hand him the way to cut this Gordian knot of his, it's clear to everyone in-universe and out (if wasn't abundantly clear beforehand) that Raynor was always going to Char to save Kerrigan, not kill her.
    Last edited by Turalyon; 03-31-2018 at 11:37 PM.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

Similar Threads

  1. StarCraft 2 was announced 10 years ago today!
    By Alex06 in forum StarCraft II Discussion
    Replies: 51
    Last Post: 06-07-2017, 10:06 PM
  2. Starcraft - 7 years in 7 minutes
    By Aznargo in forum StarCraft: Brood War Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-14-2013, 10:03 AM
  3. Starcraft: Fifteen Years in the Koprulu Sector
    By Kaiser in forum StarCraft II Discussion
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 04-03-2013, 10:43 AM
  4. StarCraft II Expansions, Diablo III Coming in "Next Few Years"
    By TheEconomist in forum StarCraft II Discussion
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 11-26-2009, 07:05 AM
  5. Is 4 years enough?
    By Triceron in forum StarCraft Universe Lore Discussion
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 07-19-2009, 06:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •