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Thread: Starcraft reboot ideas discussion thread

  1. #111

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Sure they can avoid it. The Overmind was doing this/not an actual target for such attacks until it made itself into one on Aiur. I mean, we're talking about this gigantic mountain that would otherwise be immobile!
    Speaking of which, where was the overmind before he went to Aiur? Is that ever mentioned?

  2. #112

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Speaking of which, where was the overmind before he went to Aiur? Is that ever mentioned?
    Wasn't he always on Char prior to the Aiur invasion?

  3. #113

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Speaking of which, where was the overmind before he went to Aiur? Is that ever mentioned?
    It's never directly mentioned. There's only hints in the manual where it says it's rumoured the Overmind resides in the heart of the Tiamat broods fleet.

    At the time, I just took the manual description at its word that it was a "bodiless entity" and that it always had been up until it decided not to be. Also, the Overmind mentions being made manifest twice. This implies that the Overmind may not be clear or obvious in a physical way until it is made apparent/manifest. If it already had a body, it may/would have said something closer to or about revealing itself, emerging (from being hidden) or arriving instead.
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  4. #114

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    It's never directly mentioned. There's only hints in the manual where it says it's rumoured the Overmind resides in the heart of the Tiamat broods fleet.
    But where was the Tiamat brood the whole time? Because I don't recall SC1 ever confirmed it was always on Char

  5. #115
    Gradius's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Cerebrates are bodiless entities too as they just spawn somewhere else when killed. A true bodiless entity would just be a psionic energy being and I don’t think the Overmind really qualifies. His portrait is an eyeball after all and SC2 decided the eyeball is part of its in game model. I also don’t see the reason to include the blurb about him being guarded by the Tiamat brood either unless it’s true. Being “made manifest” means he grew a new body on Aiur. Or maybe that was him in the meteorite, I don’t know.

  6. #116

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    But where was the Tiamat brood the whole time?
    Somewhere in space?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Cerebrates are bodiless entities too as they just spawn somewhere else when killed. A true bodiless entity would just be a psionic energy being and I don’t think the Overmind really qualifies.
    Eh, I dunno whether being capable of being resurrected really counts as being a "bodiless entity". I know there's no evidence for this fanon of mine but I think that a cerebrate isn't capable of "existing" without or outside of its physical form, whilst the Overmind can. The way it's described in the manual, the Overmind appears to be a "gestalt" in that it's not any one thing in particular but something greater than the sum of its parts. Being representative of the base drive of every single Zerg and a collective consciousness would suggest that the Overmind exists at all levels within the Zerg. The Overmind wouldn't need a "body" per se because the entire Zerg swarm is the Overminds body.

    As an analogy, I see the Overmind as kinda like the emergent intelligence that arises from collective Geth (of Mass Effect) programs running together (and no, I'm not saying they are the same in every aspect - just only the one I described). The Overmind isn't any one body much like the Geth aren't any one "platform".

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    I also don’t see the reason to include the blurb about him being guarded by the Tiamat brood either unless it’s true.
    I included it because it's the only clue/hint in the manual that the Overmind exists as a physical body/occupies space and is located somewhere. Even then it's suspect because the quote says "It's speculated that the Overmind itself is protected deep within the safety of this living fleet".

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Being “made manifest” means he grew a new body on Aiur. Or maybe that was him in the meteorite, I don’t know.
    "Made manifest" means to become apparent, evident, obvious. This implies it wasn't apparent, evident or obvious before, which coincides with the possibility of it not actually having a body, which in turn, would make sense since it was last and previously described as a "bodiless entity" in the manual.
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  7. #117

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    This implies it wasn't apparent, evident or obvious before, which coincides with the possibility of it not actually having a body, which in turn, would make sense since it was last and previously described as a "bodiless entity" in the manual.
    ... Which runs counter to another section in the manual, describing the Overmind being protected by the Tiamet brood, implying a body needing protection.

    Perhaps the Overmind's bodies are more transient than the Cerebrates' were. Or the Tiamet always takes point when the Overmind decided the inhabit a shell body, as seen on Aiur and later Char.

    At a certain point we have to admit we're trying to fill in the holes, and the cement we're using is called "fan fiction" and speculation.
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  8. #118

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    ... Which runs counter to another section in the manual, describing the Overmind being protected by the Tiamet brood, implying a body needing protection.

    Perhaps the Overmind's bodies are more transient than the Cerebrates' were. Or the Tiamet always takes point when the Overmind decided the inhabit a shell body, as seen on Aiur and later Char.

    At a certain point we have to admit we're trying to fill in the holes, and the cement we're using is called "fan fiction" and speculation.
    That's what I didn't really understand, VoK. It made it seem like until the Aiur invasion, the Overmind was completely formless. After all, the definition of "manifest" (given the Overmind's words in the mission briefing) is to make clear to the eye. But that doesn't necessarily have to mean the Overmind never had a body AT ALL. Maybe it just meant it hid its body really well, wherever it was.

    This would then be consistent with the 2nd Overmind. As Kerrigan was telling Artanis and Zeratul, it was still an infant and cannot control the swarm. It could mean without maturity, it couldn't effectively hide its body like the 1st Overmind could.

    Now, regarding your part of the Overmind being protected by the Tiamat brood, if that was in the manual, did that take place BEFORE the events of SC1? Because if yes, then it should imply the Overmind had a body. Why would a formless entity need protection? (You can't exactly kill what you can see and don't know it exists)

  9. #119

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    ... Which runs counter to another section in the manual, describing the Overmind being protected by the Tiamet brood, implying a body needing protection.
    Not really. I already took this into account in the very same post of mine that you replied to:

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Even then it's suspect because the quote says "It's speculated that the Overmind itself is protected deep within the safety of this living fleet".
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  10. #120
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    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Eh, I dunno whether being capable of being resurrected really counts as being a "bodiless entity". I know there's no evidence for this fanon of mine but I think that a cerebrate isn't capable of "existing" without or outside of its physical form, whilst the Overmind can. The way it's described in the manual, the Overmind appears to be a "gestalt" in that it's not any one thing in particular but something greater than the sum of its parts. Being representative of the base drive of every single Zerg and a collective consciousness would suggest that the Overmind exists at all levels within the Zerg. The Overmind wouldn't need a "body" per se because the entire Zerg swarm is the Overminds body.

    As an analogy, I see the Overmind as kinda like the emergent intelligence that arises from collective Geth (of Mass Effect) programs running together (and no, I'm not saying they are the same in every aspect - just only the one I described). The Overmind isn't any one body much like the Geth aren't any one "platform".
    This is usually my go-to interpretation of the Overmind because I love it so much, however, it still has to have emergent properties that are just more than the sum of its parts that then make it its own character. The Xel'Naga created the Overmind themselves and the manual says "the Overmind coalesced into a semi-sentient being" and "As time passed, the Overmind developed the rudiments of personality and advanced intellect." The Overmind didn't start with these qualities, whereas the Geth gestalt does when they all join, so it's not really accurate to say that the Overmind exists everywhere or that it's merely "all zerg". It's still its own thing and I'd say it makes sense that it does need a container for its personality and memories. Also, who opened the warp rifts for the swarm? I always assumed it was Overmind/Cerebrates and they need a body for that. They are all bodiless in the sense that they're not tied to one body and jump/switch one at their whim especially if they get killed, but I really don't see the Overmind as a true bodiless entity who just hangs out in the ether.

    If we're taking SC2 canon into account, Blizzard decided that its eyeball is also its in-game model, and that was its portrait the whole game in SC1. That's pretty overwhelming evidence that it was in a physical body the whole time as far as I'm concerned, though of course "anything is possible".


    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    "Made manifest" means to become apparent, evident, obvious. This implies it wasn't apparent, evident or obvious before, which coincides with the possibility of it not actually having a body, which in turn, would make sense since it was last and previously described as a "bodiless entity" in the manual.
    You can also take that to mean that it wasn't apparent, evident or obvious before because it was hiding out in space instead of implanting itself on the front lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Not really. I already took this into account in the very same post of mine that you replied to:
    The fact that the line is in there to begin with sort of implies he does or at least can have one. Otherwise if it was a true bodiless entity there'd be no reason to speculate it's in any location.
    Last edited by Gradius; 12-14-2017 at 10:46 AM.

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