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Thread: Starcraft reboot ideas discussion thread

  1. #101

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    the taldarim have the disposition but not the resources, son a parasitic faction, its advantage with appearances to otrs protoss is only the use of psychic drugs and their lack of scruples

  2. #102

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    i'm 100% in favor of removing Kerrigan and making the story more faction based, she was the worst part of every StarCraft installment to date.

    "We're simply saying that a reboot with Kerrigan removed isn't strictly necessary or desirable. "
    Speak for yourself, I'm into it

    I feel as though a great many people aren't understanding this dude's point.

    Kerrigan being a part of this established canon is 100% irrelevant when it comes to an alternate history campaign, I'm not really understanding the disconnect here?

    Nobody here is denying that Kerrigan the Queen of Sue is not a pivotal character in the established franchise, its that a lot of us don't give a shit and rather have story lines that don't rely on her to fuck up the narrative, so fanboys (not anyone in particular) can wet their pants when she WTFpwns the entire universe without consequence.

    Oh well, a shame this dude ran away from this, really should've stood his ground instead of throwing his spine out the window : /
    Last edited by KaiserStratosTygo; 12-11-2017 at 11:33 AM.

  3. #103

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Hm. Then why did you start off saying this?
    They couldn't win because they didn't know where Aiur was is what I meant. I probably should have combined that sentence with the one after to make it clearer. Sorry, I can understand how that could be misleading!

    If we're attempting a Watsonian explanation though, I would have to say that the Zerg would never allow/put themselves in a situation where a planet-destroying WMD would adversely/significantly affect them knowing that they exist and can be potentially used against them at any time. Kerrigan would be even more acutely aware of this given that her immortality status is debatable. I mean, we're not really sure whether Kerrigan herself was actually present on Char Aleph - just like what Grad alludes to.
    The question is: can you really avoid such a situation? As long as you know where Kerrigan/the zerg leader is and as long as the technology is there, it's unavoidable. For BW to make sense after the betrayal, if the WMD are availble, Kerrigan would need to be in hiding imo. Strategically, it would make perfect sense to do so since she is the one and only vulnerable weak spot to the zerg.

    Speaking of which, technically speaking, if she can infest protoss (as seen with Raszagal) and humans, wouldn't it make more sense for her to never really establish a central base of operation? And just continuously covertly infest major targets until she own the world? Presumably, she can also engineer plagues and what not. Why does anyone even bother doing "conventional" fights in this universe

    It's relative. It's kinda overreactive for Mengsk to send his best general and a fully kitted army out to a desolate planet because of a dream, too
    Fair point!

    I thought Kerrigan was on the surface though with the bulk of her broods. She even says "you'll need to hold off the invaders by yourself."
    Plausible but the full quote is:

    Cerebrate, our scouts have just identified three separate fleets approaching this platform. With Duran having disappeared, and the bulk of my broods still on the surface of Char, you'll need to hold off the invaders by yourself.
    The "by yourself" part could refer to the broods on the surface or Duran disappearance. Whoever wrote the wiki for omega seems to think Kerri was on the platform (not really a convincing argument, just saying it). But I agree that it's unclear. Could be either at this point.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserStratosTygo View Post
    Speak for yourself, I'm into it

    I feel as though a great many people aren't understanding this dude's point.

    Kerrigan being a part of this established canon is 100% irrelevant when it comes to an alternate history campaign, I'm not really understanding the disconnect here?

    Nobody here is denying that Kerrigan the Queen of Sue is not a pivotal character in the established franchise, its that a lot of us don't give a shit and rather have story lines that don't rely on her to fuck up the narrative, so fanboys (not anyone in particular) can wet their pants when she WTFpwns the entire universe without consequence.

    Oh well, a shame this dude ran away from this, really should've stood his ground instead of throwing his spine out the window : /
    I really wish you'd quit portraying her as that, Stratos. Regardless the whole faction focused matter I believe would be necessary. Though I'm surprised you felt this war towards her by the time of BW, since it was necessary for her to gain control of the swarm this way

  5. #105

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    "I really wish you'd quit portraying her as that,"
    They shouldn't have written her as such :>

  6. #106

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserStratosTygo View Post
    They shouldn't have written her as such :>
    They chose the easy way out instead of trying to develop her as having better qualities. Ironically, in the Flashpoint book Kerrigan said similar lines to Raynor, that the zerg chose her because she hardly understood anything outside of killing, which suited the swarm just fine

  7. #107
    Gradius's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserStratosTygo View Post
    i'm 100% in favor of removing Kerrigan and making the story more faction based, she was the worst part of every StarCraft installment to date.



    Speak for yourself, I'm into it

    I feel as though a great many people aren't understanding this dude's point.

    Kerrigan being a part of this established canon is 100% irrelevant when it comes to an alternate history campaign, I'm not really understanding the disconnect here?

    Nobody here is denying that Kerrigan the Queen of Sue is not a pivotal character in the established franchise, its that a lot of us don't give a shit and rather have story lines that don't rely on her to fuck up the narrative, so fanboys (not anyone in particular) can wet their pants when she WTFpwns the entire universe without consequence.

    Oh well, a shame this dude ran away from this, really should've stood his ground instead of throwing his spine out the window : /
    I hate Kerrigan too but:
    1) A fan fiction or custom campaign will never be canon. Kerrigan is in every SC game besides Novert Ops. It’s not really “StarCraft” without her, and I like SC more than I hate Kerrigan.
    2) Go ahead and make that AU campaign. But theres no guarantee any other alternate story will be any good or even better than StarCraft just because Kerrigan is missing. If it is, I’ll play it, but I doubt even 5% of the people that played SC2 will even hear about it.

    Otherwise, as I’ve stated multiple times, I’m totally down for a reboot without Kerrigan. Or maybe with Kerrigan where she’s a side character and underpowered.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    I hate Kerrigan too but:
    1) A fan fiction or custom campaign will never be canon. Kerrigan is in every SC game besides Novert Ops. It’s not really “StarCraft” without her, and I like SC more than I hate Kerrigan.
    2) Go ahead and make that AU campaign. But theres no guarantee any other alternate story will be any good or even better than StarCraft just because Kerrigan is missing. If it is, I’ll play it, but I doubt even 5% of the people that played SC2 will even hear about it.

    Otherwise, as I’ve stated multiple times, I’m totally down for a reboot without Kerrigan. Or maybe with Kerrigan where she’s a side character and underpowered.
    Underpowering her is exactly my idea right now, Gradius. You can argue that fanfics aren't canon, but their purpose is what the author wants/hopes the direction the SC universe will go (something Blizzard will pick up again in about 90 years). Besides, as of Blizzcon 2017 they said Coop will get the majority of development, meaning storywise, the SC universe no longer exists. There's little left except for fanfics/custom campaigns.

  9. #109

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    They couldn't win because they didn't know where Aiur was is what I meant.
    Ah, it's getting even clearer now! When you said "win", you actually meant "ultimately win" when I thought you meant "win, like in general armed conflict".

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    The question is: can you really avoid such a situation? As long as you know where Kerrigan/the zerg leader is and as long as the technology is there, it's unavoidable. For BW to make sense after the betrayal, if the WMD are availble, Kerrigan would need to be in hiding imo. Strategically, it would make perfect sense to do so since she is the one and only vulnerable weak spot to the zerg.
    Sure they can avoid it. The Overmind was doing this/not an actual target for such attacks until it made itself into one on Aiur. I mean, we're talking about this gigantic mountain that would otherwise be immobile!

    As to Kerrigan in BW, apart from select appearances in The Stand and The Iron Fist campaigns, she doesn't make a physical appearance on the battlefield in the Queen of Blades campaign to allow an opportunity to have WMDs used against her. Relative to that, it's actually more incredulous that Zeratul and Artanis just don't execute her on the spot when she murders Aldaris first hand in front of them or when she appears in front of Dugalle to gloat after the UED having secured the neo-Overmind!!

    Also, knowing that she's the one that's openly deceiving them and planned to do so from the start, she would have made precautions against reprisal if they did somehow figure her out or decided to take action against her first. She is well aware that they don't really trust her and she doesn't trust them.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    Speaking of which, technically speaking, if she can infest protoss (as seen with Raszagal) and humans, wouldn't it make more sense for her to never really establish a central base of operation? And just continuously covertly infest major targets until she own the world? Presumably, she can also engineer plagues and what not. Why does anyone even bother doing "conventional" fights in this universe
    I hear you. The plot device of having her mind control Raszagal is really only there on a Doylist level to generate a dramatic moment with Zeratul when he's forced to kill her later. Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome moment but having it this way certainly causes massive fridge logic on a Watsonian level. Not only does it justifiably fuel the accusations of Kerrigan being "Mary Sue", it's one of the reasons why it fed into my conclusion that BW should've been the end. The Zerg are too OP/broken in BW that any natural continuation from BW that doesn't involve total Zerg victory wouldn't be "real" on a Watsonian level or it'd be just an overtly meaningless Doylist exercise.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  10. #110

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I hear you. The plot device of having her mind control Raszagal is really only there on a Doylist level to generate a dramatic moment with Zeratul when he's forced to kill her later. Don't get me wrong, it's an awesome moment but having it this way certainly causes massive fridge logic on a Watsonian level. Not only does it justifiably fuel the accusations of Kerrigan being "Mary Sue", it's one of the reasons why it fed into my conclusion that BW should've been the end. The Zerg are too OP/broken in BW that any natural continuation from BW that doesn't involve total Zerg victory wouldn't be "real" on a Watsonian level or it'd be just an overtly meaningless Doylist exercise.
    It's for this reason why many had wanted to put Kerrigan in a similar bind to force her to kill Raynor or something like that, so she would go through something similar. The whole mind control like that simply didn't make sense unless there was proof that at a certain age, Nerazim psionic abilities greatly decrease

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