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Thread: Starcraft reboot ideas discussion thread

  1. #481

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    I never got into the WC universe, I wouldn't know what you're getting at.

  2. #482

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I am frustrated that more posters don't engage because I am used to dealing with much healthier fandoms that are open to discussion and creativity, like Game of Thrones, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Voltron: Legendary Defender, etc. Starcraft fandom feels anemic and theocratic in comparison.
    Keep in mind those other examples are TV shows - the story and lore behind their creation is fundamental to their experience of them. Starcraft is a game, first and foremost. The story there is just a "nice addition", hence the lack of rigor when it comes to its flaws.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  3. #483

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Anyway, I had another idea for a sandbox setting inspired by the co-op missions.
    The idea is that the terran sector is a battleground for multiple factions, nation-states, power blocs, etc. Originally the sector was fought over by terran factions, then the zerg and protoss invaded. At first it seemed the protoss had the upper hand when they incinerated several heavily infested planets including Chau Sara, Antiga Prime, Tarsonis, and Earth. Then they had a insurrection and sympathizers to the terrans disabled the planet crackers. Now the sector is a free for all between many different factions.

    These factions include, but are by no means limited to:
    • Zerg Swarm: a race of vicious alien monster intent on consuming the galaxy. The only thing that stands in their way are the protoss. As a prolonged galactic war has been calculated to ultimately end in failure, the zerg have invaded the terran sector to assimilate the myriad psychic mutations present in the terran populace.
      • Fist of Redemption: a cult of terrans that worship the zerg. They have spread across the sector with frightening speed. Although the zerg were initially seen as merely animals, the fact that they seem to be able to coordinate with the Fist suggests that they harbor great intelligence.
      • Corrupted Templar: a tribe of tal’darim has adopted the Fist of Redemption’s religion and believe that being assimilated by the zerg will usher them to paradise. Initial experiments are highly unstable at best and nowhere close to ready for mass production, so the zerg still consider consuming humanity their primary evolution objective.



    • Confederacy of Man: an alliance of nation-states ruled by a callous oligarchy that casually engages in war crimes. Even so, most of the citizens are decent people and there are good people in the military who simply do not know the scale of atrocities due to the propaganda machine. Their experiments on the zerg vanguard prior to the First Contact War are believed to have been directly responsible for the zerg’s change in strategy from subtle invasion to open warfare.
      • Terran Dominion: nominally one of the Confederate states, centered on Korhal. Korhal had previously been fought over in battles of secession, which ultimately ended with the rise of Emperor Arcturus Mengsk. Mengsk previously lead the Sons of Korhal in rebellion against the Confederacy, but during the chaos of the First Contact War he revealed his true colors after zerg forces removed the Confederate occupation of Korhal. A power-hungry psychopath, Mengsk betrayed the rebellion in order to form his own state: The Dominion. Although publicly an ally of the Confederate states who generously offers support against the alien invasions and internal rebellions, in truth Mengsk wants nothing more than to rule the sector or see it burn to ash around him.
      • Möbius Foundation: a research group contracted by the Confederacy to assist Project Bellwood and Project Blackstone in their studies of zerg and protoss. They maintain their own private army, Möbius Corps. Somehow, they managed to buy the services of dark protoss mercenaries.
      • Kel-Morian Combine: The Combine was previously an independent alliance of businesses and mining guilds formed to protect their interests from Confederate regulation. After the Guild Wars, most of their affiliates were stripped and the Morian state was annexed. Due to the patronage of a corrupt Old Family, the remnants of the Kel-Morian Combine were given immunity from further interference. They nurse a grudge against the Confederacy and see the First Contact War as an opportunity to rebel and reclaim their power.






    • Rebellions: There are innumerable rebellions within the territories claimed by the Confederacy. Many of them are secretly funded by the Umojan Protectorate. Here are a few examples, but this is by no means an exhaustive list:
      • Colonial Liberation Army
      • Confederate Resistance Forces
      • Defenders of Man
      • Knights of Freedom
      • Koprulu Liberation Front
      • Mar Sara Separatists: disgusted by the Confederacy's incompetence when dealing with the zerg and protoss invaders, the Mar Sara Magistrate seceded and allied with the Sons of Korhal, Raynor's Raiders and other nearby rebel groups. As Mar Sara is within the Dominion's territory, they primarily resist Dominion occupation. The Separatists have recently allied with the protoss commanders Tassadar and Zeratul, who are sympathetic to their cause and resisted the Empire's genocides.
      • New Dresdin Outlaws: a band of rebels in the Brontes system. They have allied with the 7th fleet led by Executor Andraxxus. After Brontes IV was claimed by the zerg, Andraxxus used hallucinations to cover their retreat to another part of the system where they now plan their next move.
      • Sons of Korhal: After being betrayed by Arcturus Mengsk, the Sons of Korhal have reorganized around new leaders including the "mutate"/ex-ghost Kerrigan and Mengsk's rebellious son Valerian.




    • The Alliance: an alliance of terran and protoss forces intent on defending the terran sector from terran and alien threats. They represent perhaps the biggest such alliance, but not the only one.
      • Umojan Protectorate: an alliance of terran nation-states formed in response to the Confederacy’s wars of aggression. They secretly funded black ops and rebellions but did not act openly against the Confederacy.
      • United Earth Directorate: a nominal member state of the Umojan Protectorate, the United Earth Directorate openly wars with the Confederacy in the wake of Earth’s destruction.
      • Protoss Caretakers: a rebel offshoot of the Protoss Empire, these protoss seek to protect the terrans from the zerg invasion without genocide.
      • Dark Templar: a band of dark protoss who have joined the alliance’s fight for freedom at the behest of their religious leaders.
      • Enslaved zerg: some alliance members enslaved small numbers of zerg, but this is highly criticized by those who feel this is playing with fire. Anti-zerg nanomachines have been able to free some infested terrans from zerg control, and now these “mutates” serve in the alliance.




    • Protoss Crusaders: loyalists to the Protoss Empire, they believe that the terrans’ lives are forfeit as collateral damage against the zerg invasion. They consider the dark protoss tribes to be dangerous heretics deserving of genocide.
      • Purifiers: the protoss make extensive use of cybernetics, robotics and piloted mechs, of which the purifiers are a logical result. The minds of dead protoss are preserved within the templar archives, and these can be downloaded into psychic robotic shells known poetically as purifiers. First employed to fight in the Aeon of Strife, purifiers saw intermittent deployment in many future conflicts. By the present, they were largely deactivated due to ethical concerns. As a result of the deteriorating situation in the terran sector, a purifier stasis-tomb on Cybros was activated so that its soldiers could be allocated to the fighting.




    • Malfunctioning zerg: the healthy state of the zerg in harmony under the auspices of the Overmind. However, the zerg are not perfect and there are many opportunities for broods to lose contact, especially in the chaos of the First Contact War.
      • Feral zerg: some groups of zerg have lost contact with the greater zerg swarms. As such, they have reverted to less complex behavior, mostly expanding and defending themselves from attack. Most will readily submit when contacted by agents of the greater swarms, although some have gone… rogue. As feral infestors continue to follow their natural impulse to infest and assimilate, some feral zerg broods have developed unique breeds suitable for integration within the greater swarms.
        • Rogue zerg: for whatever reason, such as mutation, insanity or brain damage, these zerg refuse the orders of the greater swarms. This is not to say they are nice: they are vicious monsters just like any other zerg. Their natural behavior is to expand and exterminate everything else. As a result of the swarm’s war against the terrans and protoss, rogue broods are growing in number due to a lack of resources to allocate reclaiming them.
        • Enslaved zerg: using psychotropics and technology, it is possible for terrans and protoss to subvert the hive mind and trick a zerg brood into performing tasks for them. Many criticize this as playing with fire, since the nature of the zerg is too vicious and monstrous.
        • Primal zerg: an extreme mutation of the zerg that display dramatic differences in behavior such as a lack of telepathy, though at heart they are still the same vicious monsters as the rest of the zerg. They are motivated entirely by hunger for new and exotic meats, which they use to catalyze their molts into larger and deadlier instars. The greater swarms consider them an evolutionary dead end due to their notable inability to coordinate beyond the pack level.

      • Mecha zerg: the result of research and development by Project Simulant, the mechanical zerg are self-replicating robots that closely mimic the behavior of the zerg. As a result of the chaos of the First Contact War, many mechanical zerg have been lost or stolen.




    • Heretic protoss: a collection of many unrelated tribes that were expelled from the Protoss Empire during its many pogroms. Many remain staunchly independent, although some have formed alliances for mutual protection.
      • Khalai Refugees: these tribes accepted the principles of the khala, to control their violent impulses, but rejected the Conclave’s rigid interpretation of the Khala’s Law. They fled the empire during the initial unification wars. An example would be the small Kharnikhan Empire.
      • Dark protoss: the dark protoss rejected the path of ascension entirely. As a result, they had to develop their own paths to avoid falling into another Aeon of Strife.
        • Tal’darim: these tribes rejected the Conclave for banning their ancestral religions. Many of them have taken up the use of the drug sundrop to prevent themselves from developing their innate psychic link. The Slayn tribe is one example.
        • Nerazim: not unlike the khalai refugees, these tribes descend from ascetics and isolationists who were happy to stand aside as the Empire expanded. When they skirted prohibitions by adopting social misfits who had severed their own nerve cords, the Empire launched a pogrom against them. In memory of the atrocities and to symbolize rejecting the Conclave, they adopted the practice of circumcision. They practice a unique path of void to substitute for the khala’s control.

      • Daelaam: an alliance of khalai refugees and nerazim who believe that only through the study of all possibilities can the protoss advance as a civilization. A number of their representatives may be found in the Alliance.



    Feel free to suggest your own factions.

  4. #484

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    How about a faction of Terran pirates who pilfer and use cobbled-together Protoss tech? Or a band of wandering Dark Protoss raiders/warbands akin to Dark Eldar?
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  5. #485

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    How about a faction of Terran pirates who pilfer and use cobbled-together Protoss tech?
    They already showed that in Enslavers, to a degree. Shame, that storyline seemed reasonable, and Dark Vengeance expanded on that, I like it, but in the end it was still about using the zerg hive mind concept.

  6. #486

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    How about a faction of Terran pirates who pilfer and use cobbled-together Protoss tech? Or a band of wandering Dark Protoss raiders/warbands akin to Dark Eldar?
    There can be any number of factions that fits that MO.

    The former is present in canon to a degree. Project Blackstone studied protoss tech. Schezar is another.

    The latter is how I imagined the Tal’darim were for the most part, along with sith lords. It’s not an inherently bad idea, but they need some actual belief system to work with.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    They already showed that in Enslavers, to a degree. Shame, that storyline seemed reasonable, and Dark Vengeance expanded on that, I like it, but in the end it was still about using the zerg hive mind concept.
    The Enslavers Redux custom campaign posited Schezar and Ulrezaj were allied from the beginning.

    Ulrezaj’s vengeance story is really compelling IMO, since he has justifiable and sympathetic reasons.

    Whatever is wrong with the zerg hive mind? It is their shtick, it makes them unique and special snowflakes. Where Blizzard went wrong was treating them as a slave race rather than a swarm intelligence like the Geth. Fleshy, toothy, vicious Geth.

  7. #487

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Yeah I liked Ulrezaj's storyline in Dark Vengeance. It would have been better if they had said he was brainwashing the Aiur protoss to become Tal'darim on the DT saga to keep that agenda going.

    For me, I just feel you shouldn't have made them COMPLETELY mindless. That's the flaw in making the zerg into a weapon like that: you'll never remove the imperfection the weapon's USER has his/her flaws. Kerrigan learned that the hard way in her defeat at the end of WoL.

  8. #488

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Yeah I liked Ulrezaj's storyline in Dark Vengeance. It would have been better if they had said he was brainwashing the Aiur protoss to become Tal'darim on the DT saga to keep that agenda going.
    Problems like these are the reason why I prefer to reboot the lore rather than rationalize it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    For me, I just feel you shouldn't have made them COMPLETELY mindless. That's the flaw in making the zerg into a weapon like that: you'll never remove the imperfection the weapon's USER has his/her flaws. Kerrigan learned that the hard way in her defeat at the end of WoL.
    Hence my preference to reboot the zerg as a swarm intelligence rather than a slave race. It is possible through psychotropics and technology to trick them into performing various tasks, but by nature they are alien monsters.

    One of the reasons I liked the Annihilation custom campaign was because it depicted the zerg like a swarm intelligence. The infested terran commander was a loyal servant of the brood, not a deranged slave master.

    Kerry lost WoL because the plot said so. She won BW because the plot said so, too. She isn't a character, but a puppet of the plot. She has no consistent motivation besides serving the whims of the plot. Her control over the zerg is a narrative illusion. I find it laughable in the extreme that a single human mind could stand against the millions and billions of alien minds that compose the zerg hive mind. Plot armor, much?




    Here is an example of a rebooted simplified history of the events leading up to the present (middle of First Contact War):
    • Confederacy becomes increasingly despotic and imperialistic. They annex sovereign states (e.g. KMC), brutally crush rebellions (e.g. Korhal), etc.
    • Several other power blocs formed in response, such as the Kel-Morian Combine, Umojan Protectorate, United Earth Directorate, etc
    • Terran governments discover and study zerg vanguard, zerg are distressed and bring reinforcements through warp network, sector thrown into war
    • Protoss expedition arrives and fights terrans and zerg alike, incinerates several worlds, insurrection by sympathizers to terrans prevents further genocides
    • Terran sector is a free-for-all





    Here is my criticism of the Mengsk storyline from canon and my humble attempt to rewrite it
    • The scales of Koprulu have changed as the lore developed, from a star system or cluster to an arbitrarily high number of worlds. The increased scale makes the ease in which Mengsk conquered look silly.
    • The politics of the Confederacy are never explained. By definition, a Confederacy is an alliance of multiple states, but canon treats it as a monolithic block.
    • Real revolutions can often be just as bad or worse than the regimes they replace, but Mengsk is a cartoon supervillain. Do none of the Sons of Korhal besides Raynor disagree with him?



    I decided to resolve this by positing that Mengsk took over one Confederate state in the chaos of the first contact war, which I will call the Tarsonis-Koprulu Commonwealth (as it represents the old single star system/cluster iteration of the Confederacy). It became clear that Mengsk was a power-crazed madman with no intention of fixing the Confederacy, so the Sons of Korhal split into factions. (This is analogous to how the Chinese revolution and civil war led to the divide between the Republic of China and the Chinese Communist Party.)

    Now you can have the Dominion and Confederacy side-by-side without them necessarily being at each other’s throats. Publicly the Dominion is a Confederate state, but in private Mengsk is a lunatic who wants to take over the sector or destroy it. There is conspiracy within the Dominion to overthrow him, too.

  9. #489

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    I wouldn't. The DT Saga never actually explained just WHO Ulrezaj's boss was, and Blizzard only said it wasn't Amon, so I'd rather see how that'll turn out (if they ever bother to getting back into the whole thing).

    I know about the Annihilator custom campaign too, it gave me some ideas to draw from as well, mainly something other than the hive mind status, which we've seen too many times is a double edged sword.

    As for what you said that a single human mind could stand against that many alien minds that make up the zerg hive mind, this is something I plan to address in my future SC fic (if the situation can improve here for me to write it). You'll just have to take it with an open mind for it to work.

  10. #490

    Default Re: Brood War wasn't great, here's why, we deserve better, here's how

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    I wouldn't. The DT Saga never actually explained just WHO Ulrezaj's boss was, and Blizzard only said it wasn't Amon, so I'd rather see how that'll turn out (if they ever bother to getting back into the whole thing).

    I know about the Annihilator custom campaign too, it gave me some ideas to draw from as well, mainly something other than the hive mind status, which we've seen too many times is a double edged sword.

    As for what you said that a single human mind could stand against that many alien minds that make up the zerg hive mind, this is something I plan to address in my future SC fic (if the situation can improve here for me to write it). You'll just have to take it with an open mind for it to work.
    Look, you and I have completely attitudes. I never agree with anything you believe and I never will.

    If I revived my Starcraft rip-off thread, then would you be able to contribute constructively rather than constantly disagree with me about everything?

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