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Thread: Starcraft reboot ideas discussion thread

  1. #221

    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    Nah, make it entirely non canon.

    CLEAN SLATE

  2. #222

    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserStratosTygo View Post
    Nah, make it entirely non canon.

    CLEAN SLATE
    The whole reckoning will be necessary, but that's to see what future lore holds

  3. #223

    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Via retcon. Sc2 (plus BW and the game story of Sc1 according to Misla) is precedent so it's OK. The details of how, why, what and when don't really matter.

    Huh, this was way easier to answer than I expected.
    That is what I just said. See, the new lore makes a number of retcons that I retcon or add on to.

    Protoss Empire: In an old version of lore the protoss held a huge empire on the galactic fringe, and Koprulu was a tiny sector on their border. In the most recent version of the lore, they are limited to Aiur which is inside Koprulu. There are also numerous other differences, like SC1 protoss having different skin pigments by tribe that was changed to a homogenous pale blue in SC2, the SC1 developing their advanced technology before the aeon of strife whereas SC2 has them stone age and all their tech was made by the xel'naga, etc. Therefore, I would rationalize this as Aiur being an isolated colony of the empire which still exists outside Koprulu. In SC3, the empire sends another expedition to identify the threat posed by the zerg, since the empire discovered their probes on their borders and was disturbed by reading their minds. This allows you to bring back the Khala and protoss culture which was pointlessly destroyed by SC2 without even being really explored by the franchise, as well as opening the way for an actual galactic war between the zerg and protoss.

    United Earth Directorate: In an older version of the lore Koprulu was completely cut off from Earth to provide a clean slate, by as of Heroes of the Storm Koprulu was settled by colonists from Earth and the UED fleet was sent to reverse the Dominion's secession (and continue some version of Project Bellwood, Black Flag, Blackstone or whatever the plot to weaponize zerg is called). They never heard from the fleet again, but they still have an intelligence network in Koprulu (never stated to be disbanded), so they can just send another fleet to annex the Dominion. This brings them into conflict with Valerian, who revives the Sons of Korhal and uses psi emitters to lure zerg to Earth so he can reform the Dominion. The Umojans and KMC can be brought in saboteurs, publicly serving the Dominion while secretly funding pirates and breeding armies of enslaved zerg.

    Zerg Swarm: In an older version of lore the zerg wanted to create hybrids to conquer the universe, but in new lore this motive was moved to Amon (in fact, all of the original zerg motivation was moved to the xel'naga wholesale in a stupid attempt to make them good guys). However, in both versions of the lore the natural state of the zerg is vicious monsters that want to eat everything (which organically leads into Amon's motivation). The "corrupted" zerg do not and only because they were brainwashed: Zagara wants peace, Niadra wants to kill protoss. The atrocious Queen of Blades novel depicts cerebrates as having fantasy genre-style souls that survive their bodies, so it is actually quite easy to rationalize the SC2 "xel'naga" as being cerebrates in disguise. Duran and Amon were trying to usurp the Overmind, whereas Ouros remained loyal and tricked Kerry because her memories were erased.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    My vote is to pretend that nothing after BW (besides maybe a couple of the downloadable missions) counts as canon. And none of the novels/comics count either.

    Also, SC:Ghost should have been made. That looked like a fun game.
    This is not really necessary. Just make two retcons: the SC2 "xel'naga" were cerebrates in disguise, and Aiur is just a fringe colony of the SC1 manual protoss empire. In the plot of SC3, the overmind and cerebrates return to continue their original plan to weaponize humanity and consume the protoss, the protoss empire sends an expedition to terran space to investigate the origin of the zerg probes, and the UED sends another fleet to annex the Dominion and send Valerian on a repeat of the Rebel Yell plot.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    I look at those and try to integrate it back to the existing lore as best I can, not just ignore it all. Now, if you want to come to CA and get Blizzard to redo the whole SC2 trilogy, then by all means I'll ignore the lore they made for the current SC2.
    The lore is too long, inconsistent and unwieldy to make sense of now, so I would just ignore it in favor of writing a new story to appeal to new audiences that are not familiar with the lore. Only about two retcons to the organization of the zerg and protoss are necessary to open up the plot, and these do not require rewriting the cheesy and hackneyed plots of the games.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    The whole reckoning will be necessary, but that's to see what future lore holds
    Shadow Wars looks awful, to be honest. Niadra is only an antagonist because Kerry told her to kill protoss, which is exactly what SC2 retconned as the orders of the Overmind. It is a lame rehash. Furthermore, Niadra is nowhere near as interesting a villain as the SC1 Overmind and cerebrates. So screw her!

    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserStratosTygo View Post
    Nah, make it entirely non canon.

    CLEAN SLATE
    That is essentially what I just said. I acknowledge the events of past games as canon, but introduce a couple retcons to essentially recreate the plot of SC1. The plot of my SC3 idea would not require the player to have familiarity with the previous games, but will not contradict them.

    Contradicting past games to that degree would only confuse consumers. Not everyone is a lore junkie.

  4. #224

    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    The Starcraft story is so inconsistent and convoluted that it is not worth keeping track of it. Just pretend the games make sense and that they happened, but when writing the next entry don’t rely on them.

    Here are my suggestions for making a sensible background.

    Deliberate Retcons to faction histories:
    • Terran: Koprulu was a deliberate colonization effort sent by the UPL, and never really lost contact with Earth. The governments of Koprulu nominally seceded from Earth, provoking the UED to send a fleet to annex them and deal with the alien threat.
    • Zerg: The “xel’naga” characters in SC2 were actually cerebrates in disguise, as they have the immortality falsely ascribed to xel’naga. The xel’naga was not gods, but mortal scientists eaten by the zerg. The control of the zerg by Zagara is only temporary, as the Overmind and his loyal cerebrates will eventually return to continue the grand experiment.
    • Protoss: Aiur is not the homeworld of the protoss, but an isolated and inbred colony. The real protoss empire from the SC1 manual is doing just fine on the galactic fringe. They are growing concerned by the lack of contact from Koprulu.
    • Primal Zerg: The “Zerus” inhabited by the primal zerg is actually a lost colony from a zerg expansion forgotten centuries ago. The primal zerg are analogous to the forgotten fleets of the tyranids, not the original state of the zerg. The original zerg were telepathic, whereas the primal zerg have lost their telepathy.
    • Tal’darim: The “tal’darim” is just a generic label for various fringe cults. There are multiple tribes of tal’darim with no relation to one another. Alarak’s tribe was of many lost colonies dating to the Aeon of Strife, but never had contact with Amon until recently. Not only did Amon lie to them, but he was never actually the god they worshiped in the first place.



    Other retcons and rationalizations
    • All of the planets seen in the series thus far are located in or near the Koprulu sector, including Aiur, Slayn, and jungle Zerus. They represent only the tiniest sliver of the diversity the galaxy offers. The FTL journeys are much, much shorter than the absurd scales given in canon. The real protoss and zerg homeworlds are too far away for any of the characters to travel within their life times. In fact, Koprulu is actually on the fringe of UED space and the protoss empire, within the Orion Arm. The actual distance traveled from Earth to Koprulu is around 60 light years, not the 60 thousand given on the wiki.
    • The determinant is still a thing. While the Aiur protoss were pussies who could be defeated by the terrans, the real empire is invincible. The zerg need to assimilate terran psychic potential, then research and develop new weapons against the empire. Although the zerg have acquired a lot of psychic genes, they have yet to really explore the applications. The aberrations are just a random mutation that is redundant to the countless other warrior beasts in the swarm, and the swarm queens (SC2 style queens) and changelings (produced by overseers) only scratch the surface of what is possible.
    • The protoss can be infested, because that is the only thing which makes logical sense. The zerg simply haven’t finished R&D yet. Amon’s hybrids are actually failures, since they are not perfect. They probably have short life spans and cancer or something.
    • The void, void demons, and other fantasy elements are just smoke and mirrors created by the cerebrates. In order to compete with the increased power scale of SC2, I have increased their capabilities beyond what they had in canon.
    • The adostra and chitha are not actually xel’naga, since as stated before the “xel’naga” was actually cerebrates. The “essence” used to create them is actually a mix of cerebrate and ghost cells. Cerebrates are vastly superior to Abathur and Zagara, so they are unable to replicate it.

  5. #225

    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Contradicting past games to that degree would only confuse consumers. Not everyone is a lore junkie.
    Well, all entries after Sc1 (and even Sc1 itself) contradict it according to you, so shouldn't "contradiction and retcons be expected now? No-one really cares about the story anyhow, they'll lap it up as long as it looks good.

    It's at the point now that I would absolutely accept anything that happens in the Sc universe no matter how ludicrous and I wouldn't even bat an eyelid nor care for it. Any continuation of the story is just an excuse to continue the story - it's all pointless and not worth caring about. Why beat a dead horse?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    The Starcraft story is so inconsistent and convoluted that it is not worth keeping track of it. Just pretend the games make sense and that they happened, but when writing the next entry don’t rely on them.
    Eh, if it's not worth keeping track, why would you even bother making another entry/continuing from it? You'd only continue with something if there was something worth continuing on from.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


    _______________________________________________

  6. #226

    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    That is essentially what I just said. I acknowledge the events of past games as canon, but introduce a couple retcons to essentially recreate the plot of SC1. The plot of my SC3 idea would not require the player to have familiarity with the previous games, but will not contradict them.

    Contradicting past games to that degree would only confuse consumers. Not everyone is a lore junkie.
    So let them take things from the SC2 lore POV

  7. #227

    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    So let them take things from the SC2 lore POV
    No, because of two reasons.

    1) the SC2 story makes no sense, something which you seem incapable of realizing. Amon and Overmind always had the same goal, but one is a villain and the other a hero, which is bad writing.

    2) the SC2 has no future without precisely the retcons I mentioned. Shadow Wars looks like it is shaping up to make Niadra the main antagonist to replace Overmind and Amon in another rehash of the SC1/SC2 plot template. Why not just resurrect the Overmind?

  8. #228
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    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    No, because of two reasons.

    1) the SC2 story makes no sense, something which you seem incapable of realizing. Amon and Overmind always had the same goal, but one is a villain and the other a hero, which is bad writing.
    Im confused. Which one is the hero?

  9. #229

    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Im confused. Which one is the hero?
    The Overmind, somehow. The zerg underwent the same change as the orcs did, being pawns of a blood curse thing, except that the retcon sabotaged itself by portraying the natural state of the zerg as vicious monsters that consume other species for genes. The Overmind was rebelling against Amon only because Amon would discard the zerg, which is nowhere near sufficient to justify making Amon an entirely separate villain.

    Adding Amon is redundant and makes far less sense than resurrecting the Overmind a second time. So that's why my suggestion to put the franchise back on track was to retcon Amon into a rogue cerebrate and resurrect the Overmind. It makes so much more sense than the xel'naga space gods cycle prophecy stuff.

  10. #230

    Default Re: How could we return the franchise to the SC1 beta status quo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    No, because of two reasons.

    1) the SC2 story makes no sense, something which you seem incapable of realizing. Amon and Overmind always had the same goal, but one is a villain and the other a hero, which is bad writing.

    2) the SC2 has no future without precisely the retcons I mentioned. Shadow Wars looks like it is shaping up to make Niadra the main antagonist to replace Overmind and Amon in another rehash of the SC1/SC2 plot template. Why not just resurrect the Overmind?
    Not all of us got into the SC universe from the SC1 lore. There certainly are holes, something I'm still looking for ways to fill in, that is all.

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