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Thread: SCLegacy Podcast?

  1. #31

    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    How did you possibly get that impression? The Zerg were quite aware they were not omnipotent or godly, as shown by their fear of the Protoss and their desire for perfection. They were not entitled to do whatever they wanted or that the xel'naga were false gods or anything of that sort: the Zerg were driven by the drives the xel'naga had instilled upon them by manipulating their evolution, and their culture arose organically from that.

    All three factions are monstrous, but believe themselves to be good and have redeeming qualities. If you cannot appreciate that the morality of Starcraft was ambiguous before all the stupid retcons you apparently cherish as gospel, then you have no place arguing about about the morality of the races.
    The Xel'Naga did not manipulate their evolution. The manual specifically said that after the Xel'Naga helped them survive Zerus's harsh environment, they just let the swarm evolve on its own. Unless of course you're suggesting merely watching over them like that qualifies as evolution manipulation.

    Now, for the whole ambiguity part, I'm not here to suggestion a black and white picture, but you don't make it so that it's intentionally left so vague that no matter what happens in the end you have to decide for yourself who's good and who's evil. But then again, I haven't seen enough of those types of stories myself, maybe they're not as bad.

  2. #32

    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    The Xel'Naga did not manipulate their evolution. The manual specifically said that after the Xel'Naga helped them survive Zerus's harsh environment
    "How to lose all your credibility in a matter seconds", by Rag.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  3. #33

    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    Aaaaaand to steer this ship back on its course, Undead, why don't you tell us what you really want to talk about on a podcast?


    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    Honestly, I kind of want it to be a post-mortem-machine. We talk about what didn't work in the SC2 trilogy, why, what could it have been going for instead. We compare that to things that did work back in the day with less technology. Explain that, despite Kerrigan being in a murderous frenzy in both HOTS and Brood War, her role in the former is much more engaging and interesting. I truly believe that Blizzard will change given enough feedback, but the podcast should exist regardless of that.

    It should be a vehicle of catharsis. We articulate the intangibles of what made the original great, what was lacking in the trilogy, what we wish we had, etc. It's point is to assert control over something we otherwise don't have any say in.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadprotoss View Post
    It should be a vehicle of catharsis. We articulate the intangibles of what made the original great, what was lacking in the trilogy, what we wish we had, etc. It's point is to assert control over something we otherwise don't have any say in.
    Do custom campaigns not count? Some dude wrote a book (see my sig) outlining the backdrop for a shared universe based on the Starcraft lore, hoping that map makers might decide to adopt it. The benefit of custom campaigns is that they are not beholden to the trials that result in triple-A games having laughably bad stories. The onus is on us, the fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadprotoss View Post
    Honestly, I kind of want it to be a post-mortem-machine. We talk about what didn't work in the SC2 trilogy, why, what could it have been going for instead. We compare that to things that did work back in the day with less technology. Explain that, despite Kerrigan being in a murderous frenzy in both HOTS and Brood War, her role in the former is much more engaging and interesting. I truly believe that Blizzard will change given enough feedback, but the podcast should exist regardless of that.
    Please take off the nostalgia goggles. The problem with existing Starcraft lore is that every campaign after Rebel Yell has massive narrative problems. Ignoring Starcraft 2 will not change that. I just spent a dozen paragraphs explaining this earlier, if anyone forgot. Brood War does not lend itself to sequels. A logical follow up would just be Kerry and Duran (and maybe the UED) duking it out for control, with the K-sec Terrans and Protoss sitting on the sidelines because they have no military. At the end everyone dies, and there's no possibility for a Starcraft 3.

    As a Zerg fan, I hate Kerry with the burning intensity of a billion suns. Not only does she pull her control of Zerg out of her ass, she succeeds only through retcons and author fiat, she kills off the Zerg hierarchy on the flimsiest of pretenses, she abandons the quest for perfection, she claims the asshole of the universe as her personal fief, and she has no vision for the future or any higher purpose in life. She's not even a character, she's Metzen's plot device.

    Metzen tainted Starcraft and Brood War with his terrible writing, and there's no doubt in my mind that James Phinney was solely responsible for all the good writing at the beginning. We need to revise everything if we want a decent story. That means aborting QoB and ignoring Brood War, because those are Metzen's bullshit. Heresy of the highest order, I know, but it's the right decision. (Again, see my sig.)
    I think Starcraft needs rebooting. See "Enumerate" for details (links: timeline, full document, original forum thread).

  6. #36
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    Campaigns don’t count because they’re not canon and don’t reach a shred of the amount of people the original game does.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Campaigns donít count because theyíre not canon and donít reach a shred of the amount of people the original game does.
    1) the canon is a moving ball of tangled yarn, which the posters in this very thread disagree over how much to discard and rewrite. I think the series needs rebooting, while others want BW2. Seriously, Kerry got an award in a magazine for greatest villain despite being a fan fiction tier villain sue. 2) Heroes of the Storm started out as a mod for Starcraft 2, and eventually became so popular it was made into its own game. Starcraft Universe, another mod which takes place in an alternate universe, got funded on kickstarter. Also, how many people play the campaigns as opposed to multiplayer?

    Regardless of our personal opinions on the matter, caving into nostalgia makes no sense from a marketing perspective. WoL is now free to play and will be new players' first introduction to the lore. Producing DLC (because there's no way SC3 will not be DLC) taking place in an alternate universe, which requires playing SCR to understand (assuming it's a sequel rather than a reboot), will only confuse consumers. Any DLC, whether sequel or reboot or whatever, will inevitably suck because Blizzard cannot write worth a darn.

    Properly scaled, Starcraft offers the backdrop for countless campaigns during a period of galactic war between three races with numerous factions a la Warhammer 40k. Any campaign by Blizzard will not only ignore this massive scale, it will make a couple of characters like Raynor or Kerry literally the center of the universe, because Blizzard cannot write. They aren't Games Workshop, who have a huge multimedia franchise in Warhammer 40k which is so huge that Amon's so-called "End War" would be considered a rounding error.

    Am I arguing that Starcraft should be more like Warhammer 40k, where individual characters like Kerry and Raynor are ants in the grand scheme of things? Yes! A thousand times yes!
    I think Starcraft needs rebooting. See "Enumerate" for details (links: timeline, full document, original forum thread).

  8. #38

    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Undeadprotoss View Post
    We talk about what didn't work in the SC2 trilogy, why, what could it have been going for instead. We compare that to things that did work back in the day with less technology.
    I think what makes the original stick in the memory in a positive way (as opposed to being more negative when it comes to Sc2) is more to do with it relying on "less is more", which was probably due to the limits of technology, capability and the timing/time (I think this is the biggest influence) in which it was released. Incidentally, what worked against Sc2 was its timing, too. It was too late from the first iteration and people had moved on or that they expected more/a measure of progress having grown up since it was released. Whilst the technological side of things have improved, you can also comment on how this also fed into greater expectations with the delivery of the story. One can also potentially comment on all the visuals, whilst being technically better, perhaps being something that was also responsible for deadening the feel of the story. Can there be too much of a good thing (ie: eye candy) and can that detract from delivering the story they wanted to tell?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Regardless of our personal opinions on the matter, caving into nostalgia makes no sense from a marketing perspective.
    You gotta be kidding me. Nostalgia is definitely marketable and a major reason how reboots and sequels (no matter how late they come after the initial piece) gain any traction at all. It's all due to trying to recapture or ride off the thrill of something earlier because it's much harder to come up with something new and the risk of people not liking it at all is greater than compared to a known target audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Am I arguing that Starcraft should be more like Warhammer 40k, where individual characters like Kerry and Raynor are ants in the grand scheme of things? Yes! A thousand times yes!
    Why bother? Just stick with WH40k then. I don't need something to ape something else when I can/do already enjoy that something else.
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  9. #39
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    1) the canon is a moving ball of tangled yarn, which the posters in this very thread disagree over how much to discard and rewrite. I think the series needs rebooting, while others want BW2. Seriously, Kerry got an award in a magazine for greatest villain despite being a fan fiction tier villain sue. 2) Heroes of the Storm started out as a mod for Starcraft 2, and eventually became so popular it was made into its own game. Starcraft Universe, another mod which takes place in an alternate universe, got funded on kickstarter. Also, how many people play the campaigns as opposed to multiplayer?

    Regardless of our personal opinions on the matter, caving into nostalgia makes no sense from a marketing perspective. WoL is now free to play and will be new players' first introduction to the lore. Producing DLC (because there's no way SC3 will not be DLC) taking place in an alternate universe, which requires playing SCR to understand (assuming it's a sequel rather than a reboot), will only confuse consumers. Any DLC, whether sequel or reboot or whatever, will inevitably suck because Blizzard cannot write worth a darn.

    Properly scaled, Starcraft offers the backdrop for countless campaigns during a period of galactic war between three races with numerous factions a la Warhammer 40k. Any campaign by Blizzard will not only ignore this massive scale, it will make a couple of characters like Raynor or Kerry literally the center of the universe, because Blizzard cannot write. They aren't Games Workshop, who have a huge multimedia franchise in Warhammer 40k which is so huge that Amon's so-called "End War" would be considered a rounding error.

    Am I arguing that Starcraft should be more like Warhammer 40k, where individual characters like Kerry and Raynor are ants in the grand scheme of things? Yes! A thousand times yes!
    Heroes of the Storm was a Blizzard project the whole time. StarCraft Universe is cool, but it's an alternate reality based on the SC2 canon we all hate so much, and again, still didn't reach a shred of the amount of people that SC2 has.

    But again, I don't really disagree with you, as I've wanted a reboot forever. And yes, custom campaigns are awesome, I want more of them, but SC2 is now the core product and that's never going to change without a reboot. I pretty much believe the SC universe is tainted on a meta level.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: SCLegacy Podcast?

    After thinking it over, I suppose a soft reboot that cashes on nostalgia is not out of the question. It would be really clumsy and full of retcons, but it is possible to revert the status quo back to the beginning of SC1 (more or less) and go in a more satisfying narrative direction that focuses on the faction politics and moral ambiguity that made Starcraft great in the first place.
    I think Starcraft needs rebooting. See "Enumerate" for details (links: timeline, full document, original forum thread).

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