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Thread: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

  1. #11

    Default Re: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

    If your going to do stuff like the evolution of marine armor/weaponry, and or zerg forms/purpose I would definitely be interested.
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Hold on. Didn't you just complain that the Sc1 story we got requires supplementary material like the manual to understand? Yet here you go on and espouse this particular piece of supplementary material which is fundamental in understanding and establishing the Umojans for the UED role in this revised take on BW. Smells fishy to me.
    The two situations are not comparable. Starcraft is a published game that, prior to the proliferation of online retail and PDF documents, relied on a physical manual which could be easily lost. Failing to read the manual meant that the player would not know key plot points and thus alter their view of game events. Mass Recall, a remake of SC1, includes excerpts from the original manual to explain key plot points and solves that problem.

    I am arguing that fans and mapmakers should throw out the canon Starcraft plot and reboot it based on a 150 page fanfic bible that is easily accessible on the internet. Here are the links: http://fav.me/d8svb5e, http://fav.me/d8ve3sv. The SC:EN bible is only necessary to read if you are trying to build a campaign based on it (or, like me, arguing in favor of it). If you are playing that campaign, a competent writer should provide enough context to understand the plot of the campaign. SC2 conveniently provides an in-game text interface which mapmakers may use to convey exposition and explanations.

  3. #13
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

    ^—there’s nothing “easily accessible” about an external 150 page doc that you have to hunt down separately from the main product.

    Most mapmakers from now on are going to base their product on SC2, because it’s canon and the only thing 99.9 percent of players have seen. That’s kinda why I gave up on the whole scene. The foundation is rubble at this point, and not really the same universe I got into.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    ^—there’s nothing “easily accessible” about an external 150 page doc that you have to hunt down separately from the main product.

    Most mapmakers from now on are going to base their product on SC2, because it’s canon and the only thing 99.9 percent of players have seen. That’s kinda why I gave up on the whole scene. The foundation is rubble at this point, and not really the same universe I got into.
    There really are not that many custom campaigns, at least compared to SC1. The SC1 fan campaign listing has over a hundred and fifty complete campaigns, while the SC2 custom campaign initiative has two dozen complete campaigns. Most custom campaigns that I have seen play fast and loose with canon due to ignorance or willful disregard. Considering that SC2 is free to play without the official campaigns, I doubt most players are even familiar with the plot beyond skimming wikipedia. Custom campaigns, like Mass Recall, are more accessible by virtue of being free.

    The Proditor campaign has Kerrigan visiting Aiur during Ep3 and infesting the Praetor of Albion, though the epilogue makes references to various threads from the EU. The Annihilation campaign introduces the Terran RSSI government/megacorp, the Protoss Idu'ran tribe, and the Zerg Daggerfang brood, all of whom have backstories that blatantly contradict canon. The Time Convergence campaign has Abathur fighting Soviet Russia on Earth and building an army of Zerg using soylent green. The Brood campaign has a brood mother stealing the essence of a hybrid and building an army of them. Replicant, which is supposed to be a sequel to SC2, goes on a series of bizarre tangents that only loosely relate to anything that came before.

    Enumerate provides a solid foundation on which to build campaigns while providing an immense amount of freedom due to the massive scales involved. Replies in the original bnet thread were universally positive. Considering the existing disregard for canon, I do not see why it would be difficult to convince mapmakers to adopt the timeline. At the very least it allows them to at least pretend they share the same universe by referencing the same overarching conflicts.

  5. #15
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I do not see why it would be difficult to convince mapmakers to adopt the timeline.
    Because of all these reasons you just listed:

    The Proditor campaign has Kerrigan visiting Aiur during Ep3 and infesting the Praetor of Albion, though the epilogue makes references to various threads from the EU. The Annihilation campaign introduces the Terran RSSI government/megacorp, the Protoss Idu'ran tribe, and the Zerg Daggerfang brood, all of whom have backstories that blatantly contradict canon. The Time Convergence campaign has Abathur fighting Soviet Russia on Earth and building an army of Zerg using soylent green. The Brood campaign has a brood mother stealing the essence of a hybrid and building an army of them. Replicant, which is supposed to be a sequel to SC2, goes on a series of bizarre tangents that only loosely relate to anything that came before.
    If they can't even adhere to basic canon, why in the world would they go above and beyond to make sure their missions are in line with a non-canon 150 page document?

    Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be cool, but it's wishful thinking.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    The two situations are not comparable. Starcraft is a published game that, prior to the proliferation of online retail and PDF documents, relied on a physical manual which could be easily lost. Failing to read the manual meant that the player would not know key plot points and thus alter their view of game events. Mass Recall, a remake of SC1, includes excerpts from the original manual to explain key plot points and solves that problem.

    I am arguing that fans and mapmakers should throw out the canon Starcraft plot and reboot it based on a 150 page fanfic bible that is easily accessible on the internet. Here are the links: http://fav.me/d8svb5e, http://fav.me/d8ve3sv. The SC:EN bible is only necessary to read if you are trying to build a campaign based on it (or, like me, arguing in favor of it). If you are playing that campaign, a competent writer should provide enough context to understand the plot of the campaign. SC2 conveniently provides an in-game text interface which mapmakers may use to convey exposition and explanations.
    I don't even know where to begin...

    The Starcraft manual is an easy find. Just Google it and the pdf of it is on the top of the list. It's also much easier to read digest than this "150 page fanfic bible" you propose.

    The Sc1 plot is really not that complicated to follow and the story has enough context alone to be understandable even without the manual/minutiae. That's not to say that it isn't filled with narrative conceits, fridge moments and many other tropes that all fiction is made up of though.

    Throwing out the canon Sc plot only to make it something else makes me wonder whether your time is better spent just creating a new separate universe altogether. If one can't even agree and adhere to the fundamentals of what was presented in Starcraft originally, flawed though it may be, is it right to even call it Starcraft anymore? I mean, Sc2 was a result of this kind of mindset afterall...

    Lastly, if you form a campaign around a 150-page revisionist take on Sc history, there will be people that will say that this doesn't gel with Starcraft 1 or "I don't get it" because they didn't know they had to read a text book to understand it.
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  7. #17
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    Default Re: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Because of all these reasons you just listed:



    If they can't even adhere to basic canon, why in the world would they go above and beyond to make sure their missions are in line with a non-canon 150 page document?

    Don't get me wrong, I think it'd be cool, but it's wishful thinking.
    Yeah, the 150 page document is imposing. The timeline document, at the second link I gave http://fav.me/d8ve3sv, is only a few pages in length and includes the main points. The big book gives lots of details on culture and tech trees, but that sort of information is only necessary if you want to go all out on the world building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I don't even know where to begin...

    The Starcraft manual is an easy find. Just Google it and the pdf of it is on the top of the list. It's also much easier to read digest than this "150 page fanfic bible" you propose.
    SC:EN follows through with the setup presented in the original manual, rather than making bizarre changes the SC1 game script did or having new villains crawl out of the woodwork. SC:EN does not throw out the canon plot, but salvages it.

    Zerg invade K-sec to assimilate human psychic potential, Protoss try to stop Zerg without killing Terrans, Terrans fight free for all for survival and independence, Zerg built army of doom, Zerg invade Protoss Empire, Zerg invade Dark Templar, Zerg plunder ancient ruins of first age Protoss Empire and Xel'naga, Protoss fight civil war due to bad memories of psionic storms, Protoss band together and fight last ditch, Zerg Overmind killed, Zerg broods turn on one another, Terrans and Protoss struggle to survive, Terrans and Protoss enslave Zerg, Zerg eventually reunite under new Overmind, Terrans and Protoss finally build alliance to fight Zerg, ending ambiguous...

    It reads almost like a cliffnotes version of canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Lastly, if you form a campaign around a 150-page revisionist take on Sc history, there will be people that will say that this doesn't gel with Starcraft 1 or "I don't get it" because they didn't know they had to read a text book to understand it.
    The timeline document, only a few pages, is enough to understand the intentions. It follows the same broad strokes as the games without all the stupid.

    EDIT: To be entirely honest, there's no satisfactory way to continue the Starcraft story because the writers wrote themselves into a corner. Since this is Blizzard we're talking about, they'll probably just add another round of retcons and write a generic story where yet another galactic space monster comes out of the woodwork. At this point I would not be surprised if they pulled another Warcraft 2/3 (which introduced Lordaeron and Kalimdor) and retcon the K-sec conflicts to the boondocks while bigger galactic politics went on in the background.
    Last edited by Mislagnissa; 11-02-2017 at 09:58 AM.

  8. #18

    Default Re: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

    They certainly did write themselves into a corner, but the only real way out was to make the hybrids interesting and figure out the rest of the plot from there. All the rest of the problems arise from trying to retcon things: sudden Raynor/Kerri romance, Mengsk is now idiot, Zeratul forgot everything, Overmind isn't the real baddie, etc.

    ("Mislagnissa"....?)


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  9. #19
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    Default Re: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    They certainly did write themselves into a corner, but the only real way out was to make the hybrids interesting and figure out the rest of the plot from there. All the rest of the problems arise from trying to retcon things: sudden Raynor/Kerri romance, Mengsk is now idiot, Zeratul forgot everything, Overmind isn't the real baddie, etc.

    ("Mislagnissa"....?)
    The retcons started in SC1, probably because of Metzen's meddling. Kerry became Zerg Jesus but contributed nothing to the plot. Raynor and Duke were shoehorned into Episodes 2 and 3.

    Brood War dropped the UED out of nowhere despite the KMC and Umojans already existing. Kerry took over the Zerg, destroying everything that made them interesting. The Protoss wasted screen time with a magical macguffin on Shakuras.

    SC2 ignored the economic and political fallout and feels like it takes place directly after Episode 1. Amon is basically a cheap substitute for both the Overmind and the Burning Legion.

    It's not a stable foundation, but in terms of raising the stakes in SC3 it's easy to introduce new Terran, Zerg and Protoss factions based on the forgotten lore tidbit that all three are supposed to have huge galactic empires outside the Koprulu sector. The UED apparently controls loads of colonies and travels 60k light years in a matter of months, the Zerg consumed literally countless worlds over a bazillion years, and the Protoss rule exactly an eighth of the galaxy (~50 billion star systems).

    It's great for continuing a franchise, but it makes the Koprulu wars look absurdly small-minded. What was the rest of the galaxy doing while Amon was pursuing his personal vendetta on Aiur? Why did Kerry think she ruled the universe? There must be trillions of Protoss and googleplexes of Zerg that have no idea they exist.

  10. #20
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: Making a Starcraft Youtube Channel

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    They certainly did write themselves into a corner, but the only real way out was to make the hybrids interesting and figure out the rest of the plot from there. All the rest of the problems arise from trying to retcon things: sudden Raynor/Kerri romance, Mengsk is now idiot, Zeratul forgot everything, Overmind isn't the real baddie, etc.

    ("Mislagnissa"....?)
    Hah! I knew you two weren't the same person. :P

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