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Thread: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

  1. #111

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Making the Terrans able to fight back to begin with is logically equivalent to adding the UED later.
    Not quite. The thing is, the Terrans were never able to fight back in any meaningful or long-term way against either of the other two. Both the manual and the game are consistent in this portrayal of the Terrans. Changing that would be the same as saying the Zerg we see in Sc1 are not the real Zerg (like Sc2 does).

    The idea of the UED or "Earth" on a very broad, non-specific level being used as a means to bolster the strength of the Terrans is not inherently bad because it's really the only way to give the Terrans a greater presence and standing against the other two races without having to retcon what was established (that the K-sector Terrans were always weak relative to the other two races) in both manual and game. The way Earth/UED was used in BW was squandered because they were only used solely in an antagonist role and were completely done away with in the end, leaving no consequence of their passing.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  2. #112

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Not quite. The thing is, the Terrans were never able to fight back in any meaningful or long-term way against either of the other two. Both the manual and the game are consistent in this portrayal of the Terrans. Changing that would be the same as saying the Zerg we see in Sc1 are not the real Zerg (like Sc2 does).

    The idea of the UED or "Earth" on a very broad, non-specific level being used as a means to bolster the strength of the Terrans is not inherently bad because it's really the only way to give the Terrans a greater presence and standing against the other two races without having to retcon what was established (that the K-sector Terrans were always weak relative to the other two races) in both manual and game. The way Earth/UED was used in BW was squandered because they were only used solely in an antagonist role and were completely done away with in the end, leaving no consequence of their passing.
    I am sure there are any number of ways to write the story such that they have a fighting chance. Reduce the damage caused by the initial invasion, keep the remaining extermination forces fairly small and slow paced, developing weapons based on studies of Zerg biology, using psychic warfare to turn the Zerg against one another, etc.

    The Terrans have things like nanofabricators and other technology that is far more advanced than today's and would render much of their society unrecognizable. They are all but stated to live in a cyberpunk dystopia. Mass producing armies of clones, robots, cyborgs, etc is something I would logically expect them to do.

    Otherwise, there's no reason to include them in the first place if they don't meaningfully contribute to the plot. To tell a story that is compelling, logically consistent, frugal, and longer than two seconds, we need to trample over your complaints about canon. Sorry!
    I think Starcraft needs rebooting. See "Enumerate" for details (links: timeline, full document, original forum thread).

  3. #113

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    You don't like their original portrayal, but you can't actually think of anything to replace it? I can't say I'm surprised (I can't do that either), but I really expected more from you given how much you argue in favor of your case.

    Please give up and admit the Zerg suck without the Overmind. You will feel so much better if you do and will be able to focus your mental energy on much more productive pursuits, like making up new broods that serve the Overmind in some super-specific way like "spawn more warriors," "hunt new species," or "harvest more minerals". I would seriously love to see an entire campaign centered around the exploits and adventures of a Zerg mining brood.
    No. The main problem here is that you want to discard the SC2 lore COMPLETELY. Because of the Overmind's directives (this is why I use the SC2 lore), it's why the Zerg acted the way they did. It's therefore necessary to have someone from the outside party come in and decide a new direction for the swarm. It's a shame that Kerrigan's actions in using it merely for her personal vendetta wasn't smart. Nevertheless it proved that the zerg are capable of change, it's just that SC2 didn't show the type of change you wanted. It's the reason I accepted the Evolution book, in that just because it was used for war does NOT mean it can never be used for peace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    For King James' sake, the Zerg speak like Shakespearean actors! You can't get less savage than that.
    Last I checked, you made it clear that the zerg cannot be anything BUT monsters. So therefore your so-called "less savage" part doesn't count.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I am sure there are any number of ways to write the story such that they have a fighting chance. Reduce the damage caused by the initial invasion, keep the remaining extermination forces fairly small and slow paced, developing weapons based on studies of Zerg biology, using psychic warfare to turn the Zerg against one another, etc.

    The Terrans have things like nanofabricators and other technology that is far more advanced than today's and would render much of their society unrecognizable. They are all but stated to live in a cyberpunk dystopia. Mass producing armies of clones, robots, cyborgs, etc is something I would logically expect them to do.

    Otherwise, there's no reason to include them in the first place if they don't meaningfully contribute to the plot. To tell a story that is compelling, logically consistent, frugal, and longer than two seconds, we need to trample over your complaints about canon. Sorry!
    You merely need to put them into the crossfire. The whole reason why the terrans weren't so devastated in SC1 and BW was due to sheer dumb luck, not skill. The swarm's goal was about the Aiur invasion, and then in BW Kerrigan needed to get rid of the UED, hence why the Dominion was spared such a fate (as well as in WoL due to the Keystone). HotS merely showed what happens when the lucky streak runs out.

    The whole cloning process was something I had always wondered as well, as to why the Confederacy just didn't do that when they first encountered the zerg. But then again, it's possible such accelerated cloning procedures could be too flawed or something

  4. #114

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    No. The main problem here is that you want to discard the SC2 lore COMPLETELY.
    Yes, because it's bloody stupid!
    I think Starcraft needs rebooting. See "Enumerate" for details (links: timeline, full document, original forum thread).

  5. #115

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Yes, because it's bloody stupid!
    Well considering the fact you're not going to listen to my argument anymore I don't have to keep this going, given what you said in the other thread

  6. #116

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Well considering the fact you're not going to listen to my argument anymore I don't have to keep this going, given what you said in the other thread
    Your argument is not constructive. You haven't given a single example of what else could motivate the Zerg. I gave three examples off the top of my head for playable broods, all of which serve the Zerg's original overarching goal in some small vital fashion.

    Please, just give on SC2.

  7. #117

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Your argument is not constructive. You haven't given a single example of what else could motivate the Zerg. I gave three examples off the top of my head for playable broods, all of which serve the Zerg's original overarching goal in some small vital fashion.

    Please, just give on SC2.
    You mean give up on SC2. And no I will not. Long before I was here on SCL, Gradius and other people tried to explain to me the flaws on the storyline, I agree they had points in several matters. However overall what it basically came down to is "Blizzard was too damn stupid."

    It's exactly for this reason why I felt (and considering the fact you said the same thing on the SC2 lore) that if we take this to its extension (this was on the battlenet forums), you might as well just say that the only "success" Blizzard had with the SC2 storyline was that they failed EVERYTHING.

  8. #118

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    You mean give up on SC2. And no I will not. Long before I was here on SCL, Gradius and other people tried to explain to me the flaws on the storyline, I agree they had points in several matters. However overall what it basically came down to is "Blizzard was too damn stupid."

    It's exactly for this reason why I felt (and considering the fact you said the same thing on the SC2 lore) that if we take this to its extension (this was on the battlenet forums), you might as well just say that the only "success" Blizzard had with the SC2 storyline was that they failed EVERYTHING.
    exactly "Blizzard was too damn stupid."they repeat this overmuch

    that in sc they have been a perfect example of applied Darwinism, it does not mean that they can not be transformed in different ways, starcraft 2 wasted very interesting elements but I take advantage of others well

  9. #119

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    You mean give up on SC2. And no I will not. Long before I was here on SCL, Gradius and other people tried to explain to me the flaws on the storyline, I agree they had points in several matters. However overall what it basically came down to is "Blizzard was too damn stupid."

    It's exactly for this reason why I felt (and considering the fact you said the same thing on the SC2 lore) that if we take this to its extension (this was on the battlenet forums), you might as well just say that the only "success" Blizzard had with the SC2 storyline was that they failed EVERYTHING.
    Yes. Blizzard failed at everything. Pretty much everyone believes that to some degree.

    Trying to salvage the mess that is Starcraft canon is an exercise in masochism. At the beginning the franchise had a premise which was nothing more than an excuse for the three mechanically diverse races to fight one another. By the end of the franchise Blizzard had shot themselves in the foot by systematically eliminating every avenue of conflict, defeating the entire purpose of making the games to begin with. Starcraft was a war simulator, so a happy ending where everyone makes peace is franchise suicide. It would be like if Warhammer 40,000 decided to say that everyone made peace and stopped making new merchandise.

    You have yet to devise a new motivation for the Zerg. The thought process you shared boiled down to shutting down any possible conflict, which defeats the point of the game. This is the exact same trap that Blizzard fell into. Every single game has ended in the destruction of the main instigator of that game's conflict, and the next installment has always made up a new antagonist whole cloth. This has given the series a very sloppy, unrealistic backstory that has more in common with the filler episodes of anime like Sailor Moon and Dragonball Z.

    If the franchise has any hope of a future, it will either be doomed to endless filler sequels that pull new villains out of their ass or it will retcon all that bullshit to give a static backdrop for constant warfare.
    I think Starcraft needs rebooting. See "Enumerate" for details (links: timeline, full document, original forum thread).

  10. #120

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by drakolobo View Post
    exactly "Blizzard was too damn stupid."they repeat this overmuch

    that in sc they have been a perfect example of applied Darwinism, it does not mean that they can not be transformed in different ways, starcraft 2 wasted very interesting elements but I take advantage of others well
    I certainly had hoped for something a lot more coming from the hybrid. We all knew they'd be used as weapons of war, but I had wanted more than just some stepping stone because Amon wanted an ultimate host body for himself.

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