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Thread: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

  1. #41

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    What? That makes no sense. Besides their science, the xel'naga had no "powers." The Overmind is a function of the Swarm, not a separate entity capable of deception. Even its so-called physical form is a proxy that was probably created specifically to assault the psi matrix. The xel'naga knowledge was disseminated among the Swarm. The Zerg literally consumed the xel'naga and constitute their direct descendants.
    No powers that we know of. You're acting like the Xel'Naga had been powerless the whole time, which was never the case even via the SC1 lore. They merely underestimated the Overmind.

    I never looked at the Origins custom campaign, but I never felt they were immune to infestation. If the zerg assimilated the Xel'Naga, you'd think they'd find a way to infest EVERY possible living organism. Maybe the Overmind just needed a lot of time to sift through the Xel'Naga knowledge and everything.

    As for creating the zerg/protoss as host bodies, that was only what Zamara was telling Zeratul in the DT Saga Twilight, which was merely her theory.

  2. #42

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    Overlords were first mentioned in the Zerg backstory. They were assimilated on Zerus, before the Zerg had space flight, to act as agents for the cerebrates. Later, the Zerg lure behemoths and assimilate them to get functional space travel and space survivability.
    That's quite interesting actually. Maybe the Overlords we see now didn't originally look like the very first Overlords. Maybe the assimilation of the Gargantis Proximae, for their heightened senses, is what led to the Overlords eventually becoming what they look like now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    In the Overlord’s unit description, however, the gargantis proximae were mentioned to be space faring. In one of the cinematics, we see overlords flying past some kind of giant space whale creature too big to fit in the frame.
    Keep in mind that there's a lot of time in between the origin of the Overlords and that cinematic we see in Sc1. It could've been they found another even larger space-faring creature to assimilate in their travels to Protoss space.
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  3. #43

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Project Blackstone states that Overlords were assimilated for their psychic sensitivity, and that the Overmind refused to heavily alter them for fear of losing those genetic components that make them so valuable. So its possible that, though capable of space travel, the Overlord's abilities couldn't be passed on to the remainder of the Swarm, necessitating assimilation of the Behemoths.

    It's interesting that a species that willingly gave themselves to the Swarm wound up being preserved almost 100%.

  4. #44

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    It makes sense to a degree, they did retain an aspect of individuality as command creatures, somewhat represented in "Just an overlord". They also still got the usual zerg treatment of regenerative properties, carapace, and the numerous other advantages.

  5. #45

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Project Blackstone states that Overlords were assimilated for their psychic sensitivity, and that the Overmind refused to heavily alter them for fear of losing those genetic components that make them so valuable. So its possible that, though capable of space travel, the Overlord's abilities couldn't be passed on to the remainder of the Swarm, necessitating assimilation of the Behemoths.

    It's interesting that a species that willingly gave themselves to the Swarm wound up being preserved almost 100%.
    Interesting. I'm willing to bet at the beginning, the Overmind did try to modify a few of them and then stopped the process altogether when it realized the vital genetics were being lost. Though I'm curious why the Overmind didn't just create much greater numbers of Overlords so that certain numbers of them could be considered more "expendable," despite their ability to command lower zerg strains. That way, the "expendable" ones could pass their abilities to the rest of the swarm

  6. #46

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    It makes me wonder when Abathur was conceived; at what point did the Overmind abandon trial and error for direct genetic manipulation? The original manual suggested that assimilation was an onerous, time- consuming process that required possibly generations.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    No powers that we know of. You're acting like the Xel'Naga had been powerless the whole time, which was never the case even via the SC1 lore. They merely underestimated the Overmind.
    They had advanced tech and lived for millions of years, but both the Protoss Empire at its height before the Aeon of Strife and the primordial Zerg Swarm constituted extinction-level threats to them. They clearly were not adept at warfare.

    In fact, I would think their psychic link was supposed to work like Amon's directive retconned in SC2. In both instances, the Overmind was trivially able to break this control and kill them all. They were really bad at warfare.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    That's quite interesting actually. Maybe the Overlords we see now didn't originally look like the very first Overlords. Maybe the assimilation of the Gargantis Proximae, for their heightened senses, is what led to the Overlords eventually becoming what they look like now.



    Keep in mind that there's a lot of time in between the origin of the Overlords and that cinematic we see in Sc1. It could've been they found another even larger space-faring creature to assimilate in their travels to Protoss space.
    I just said that the overlords and space creatures used to escape Zerus were already shown to be two different species in the original manual.

    The fact that the overlords were among the earliest species consumed, and that they shared psychic sensitivity in common with the original Zerg, suggests to me that they may have shared origin and lived in close range. Thus, the overlords may not have been particularly good at space travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Project Blackstone states that Overlords were assimilated for their psychic sensitivity, and that the Overmind refused to heavily alter them for fear of losing those genetic components that make them so valuable. So its possible that, though capable of space travel, the Overlord's abilities couldn't be passed on to the remainder of the Swarm, necessitating assimilation of the Behemoths.

    It's interesting that a species that willingly gave themselves to the Swarm wound up being preserved almost 100%.
    I always thought that was just another in the long list of SC2 retcons intended to completely rewrite the backstory and tone into garbage, like first age Protoss being retconned into cavemen and Kerry being literally a demigoddess and xel'naga being literal space squid gods.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    It makes me wonder when Abathur was conceived; at what point did the Overmind abandon trial and error for direct genetic manipulation? The original manual suggested that assimilation was an onerous, time- consuming process that required possibly generations.
    I assumed this remained the case and that the Zerg needed to tailor infestation for every unfamiliar biochemistry. They apparently needed a decade to make themselves compatible with humans. (Ignoring later retcons about the magic evolution virus and humans being magically incompatible.)

  8. #48

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Funny thing is that humans weren't magically incompatable, Abberations from larva show that the zerg did assimilate humans, and based what amounts to a cavalry unit off them. While it was initially an infested experiment it would work its way to a actual combat strain.

  9. #49

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nolanstar View Post
    Funny thing is that humans weren't magically incompatable, Abberations from larva show that the zerg did assimilate humans, and based what amounts to a cavalry unit off them. While it was initially an infested experiment it would work its way to a actual combat strain.
    zerg asimilate humans, have hard time in manipulate psionic organs, burn their mind and got only any like zerling.
    Last edited by drakolobo; 10-08-2017 at 01:48 PM.

  10. #50

    Default Re: How you suppose the breeds of the extended Zerg swarms are composed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    It makes me wonder when Abathur was conceived; at what point did the Overmind abandon trial and error for direct genetic manipulation? The original manual suggested that assimilation was an onerous, time- consuming process that required possibly generations.
    I like to think that Abathur was a creation of the Overmind after it had taken over and consumed the Xel'Naga's knowledge of proto-genetics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    They clearly were not adept at warfare.
    Not to mention they were just scientists originally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I just said that the overlords and space creatures used to escape Zerus were already shown to be two different species in the original manual.

    The fact that the overlords were among the earliest species consumed, and that they shared psychic sensitivity in common with the original Zerg, suggests to me that they may have shared origin and lived in close range. Thus, the overlords may not have been particularly good at space travel.
    Thing is, the manual actually confuses the matter due to the plothole you mentioned. If the Gargantis Proximae were already assimilated before the (other?) "race of gargantuan space-faring life forms passed through the Zerus system" but that the original Gargantis Proximae were originally space-faring (as described in the Overlord entry), were known to transport Zerg units into battle from the get-go and assimilated largely unchanged from their core genus, why would it even specify "the Overmind was looking for something - anything - which would transport them from this world (Zerus)" when it already has this "something - anything"? Surely, the Gargantis Proximae would've had the "super-dense hides and ability to exist in a vacuum" (the requirement to be considered a space-faring organism and apparently the thing they were missing in order to get off the planet) the Overmind was looking for from the start, right? Surely, there would've been an explanation given for why the Gargantis Proximae did not provide this ability when they were first assimilated in the near beginnings of the Swarm, right? One has to then consider that either the Overmind was just dumb not to assimilate the space-faring ability of the Gargantis Proximae (which is later revealed in the short story that it was due the Overmind wanting to preserve them as much as they could and therefore didn't disseminate their traits to the rest of the Zerg), or that the Overlords first mentioned in the backstory manual may not have actually originated from Gargantis Proximae, or that their description of "space-faring" doesn't also mean being able to get off a planet, or..... I think my brain just dribbled out my nose.
    Last edited by Turalyon; 10-09-2017 at 04:30 AM.
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