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Thread: Campaign Portraits

  1. #51

    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    The XN in vanilla where described as nomad scientists of sorts right? But with the retcons, I don't understand who/what modified the protoss and the zerg or if this even happened at all. My understanding was that everything that was previously referenced as XN work (the re-engineering, temples, etc) were now Amon's agents(Duran's specie? or is he a XN too?) work. So I guess what I'm asking is, what's the short version of what happened during the XN "era" following the retcons?(the timeframe when the zerg and protoss came to be)
    My guess is that events still turned out exactly as they did, it's just that the initial motivation behind them, as shown in the manual, are "revealed" as being unreliable. So all the stuff in the manual about the Xe'Naga being benevolent and harmless scientists just doing experiments, all the stuff about the purities; it's all bunk. It was all really part of Amon's plan to twist the Protoss into whatever version he wanted them as.

    In WoL, the reason given for why he uplifts the Protoss and Zerg is that he wants to use them to remake the universe in his own image. But in LotV, it's clear he really just wants to destroy anything to do with the cycle and Xel'Naga. This confuses things even more because why would Amon even bother nurturing them in any capacity at all in the first place? He had full and direct control over both the Protoss and Zerg evolution from their very beginnings afterall. If he really wanted to extinguish them, he could've done so right from the start... instead he makes it harder for himself and creates a situation where he can and does eventually fail. What an idiot.
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  2. #52

    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    We know Amon's motivations for uplifting the Protoss and zerg -- to be used as cats' paws -- but the bulk of his followers may simply have been deceived as to their mission. Perhaps the accompanying xel'naga believed in a less chaotic, more controlled Cycle, with only Amon and Narud being aware of their true purpose.

    We really need a novel to bring these elements of pre- history in line. A lot of interesting politics could have been going on. I vote for Greg Bear as author, he did a good job with the Forerunner trilogy.
    Last edited by Visions of Khas; 08-03-2017 at 07:07 AM.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    The shark's electroreceptors are located in pits in its snout, the frog's tympani on the sides of its head. The hagfish marinates itself in decomposing corpses and is physically fragile. Adaptations in nature always have tradeoffs because there is always a limited amount of energy available; this includes adaptations that increase energy intake.

    That's why zerg are trying to create the ultimate lifeform. They have to produce separate strains for every imaginable purpose to maximize efficiency. A god would just warp reality around it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    We know Amon's motivations for uplifting the Protoss and zerg -- to be used as cats' paws -- but the bulk of his followers may simply have been deceived as to their mission. Perhaps the accompanying xel'naga believed in a less chaotic, more controlled Cycle, with only Amon and Narud being aware of their true purpose.

    We really need a novel to being these elements of pre- history in line. A lot of interesting politics could have been going on.
    I always found the UED and Amon plots a poorly written diversion from the conflicts set up in Episodes I-III. We don't need new big bad villains to come out of the woodwork, we need to work with what we already had.
    Last edited by Mislagnissa; 08-03-2017 at 07:51 AM.

  4. #54

    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    The shark's electroreceptors are located in pits in its snout, the frog's tympani on the sides of its head. The hagfish marinates itself in decomposing corpses and is physically fragile. Adaptations in nature always have tradeoffs because there is always a limited amount of energy available; this includes adaptations that increase energy intake.
    Right. And it would seem as though the protoss have somehow side stepped this energy barrier, or at least maximized the efficiency of energy production and energy use.

    That's why zerg are trying to create the ultimate lifeform. They have to produce separate strains for every imaginable purpose to maximize efficiency. A god would just warp reality around it.
    Right. The zerg conform to their surroundings, while the protoss manipulate their own. Though old canon started the Dark Templar modified their own biology to adapt to Shakuras. I wonder if that still holds true in Blizzard's books.

    The Xel' naga can do both, completely changing their physical form as well as warping the physical world around themselves.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    The Xel' naga can do both, completely changing their physical form as well as warping the physical world around themselves.
    Mind = blown.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Right. And it would seem as though the protoss have somehow side stepped this energy barrier, or at least maximized the efficiency of energy production and energy use.
    Using their entire skin surface for breathing, eating, hearing, pooping, etc as the Field Manual claims is horribly impractical because all that surface area simply isn't necessary to perform those functions and will actually make them more difficult.

    We see Protoss wearing gas masks and and their chests rising and falling, as though they have lungs. Saying they breath with their skin is technically true if by "skin" you mean a specialized surface on their seemingly pointless chins, which sounds a lot like spiracles to me. Page 243 of the StarCraft Archive anthology writes that they have muscles in their face and chin which move in response to emotion, even if SC2 ignores that.

    Eating with their skin requires them to either marinate in pools of food (how they digest it I don't know) or to use specific sections of skin to do so, such as grabbing a fruit and eating it with the palm skin rather than spending time rubbing a fruit slice all over the torso. The same applies to pooping, because you really don't want to be covered in your own excrement.

    Sensing with their entire skin surface is impractical because it would be blocked or horribly aggravated by wearing clothes, unless that sensory skin is concentrated in an uncovered area like the head (which already has eyes).

    I love speculative biology projects. I'm not adverse to the Protoss having very strangely arranged anatomy, but I take issue when that biology is clearly being described by people (Blizzard) who have no idea what they're talking about and keep changing their minds about everything. The Field Manual literally labels Protoss basic anatomy "space magic." Psychic powers and mutalisk flight are already weird enough, we don't need literal logic-defying magic too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Right. The zerg conform to their surroundings, while the protoss manipulate their own. Though old canon started the Dark Templar modified their own biology to adapt to Shakuras. I wonder if that still holds true in Blizzard's books.
    In the SC1 manual the Protoss were explained as adaptable to a variety of conditions. The xel'naga were interested in the Protoss because they were the apex of physical fitness: strong, fast, apex predators, adaptable to a variety of adverse conditions. SC2 retconned that and hit the Protoss with a nerfbat. Where before they seemed perfectly fine walking naked in ice fields or deserts in search of prey, now they have to wear animal furs and genetically alter themselves to survive anywhere. Their technological development before the Aeon of Strife was retconned away and attributed to xel'naga.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    The Xel' naga can do both, completely changing their physical form as well as warping the physical world around themselves.
    That's a SC2 retcon. The SC1 manual xel'naga were very mortal nerds who could be killed by their own creations. The protoss had superior weapons and the zerg had superior numbers.

    The whole directive of the Zerg is to complete and surpass the xel'nagas' grand experiment. They ate the xel'naga and have since matched and surpassed their creators. They want to assimilate the protoss so they can create purity of form (archons?) and combine it with their purity of essence to create the ultimate lifeform.

  7. #57

    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I always found the UED and Amon plots a poorly written diversion from the conflicts set up in Episodes I-III. We don't need new big bad villains to come out of the woodwork, we need to work with what we already had.
    Amon's plot was because Blizzard wanted a way to bring the Xel'Naga in. Long before SC2 was written, many had argued that this could have been done by simply putting the Xel'Naga in flashbacks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    That's a SC2 retcon. The SC1 manual xel'naga were very mortal nerds who could be killed by their own creations. The protoss had superior weapons and the zerg had superior numbers.

    The whole directive of the Zerg is to complete and surpass the xel'nagas' grand experiment. They ate the xel'naga and have since matched and surpassed their creators. They want to assimilate the protoss so they can create purity of form (archons?) and combine it with their purity of essence to create the ultimate lifeform.
    Zeratul said the Overmind came to Aiur to finish the Xel'Naga's experiments. Nothing was said about surpassing it all. And the Overmind said nothing about creating the ultimate lifeform. It merely thought that this would make the swarm perfect. Makes you really wonder did it actually know what would REALLY happen if it had won on Aiur...

  8. #58

    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    My guess is that events still turned out exactly as they did, it's just that the initial motivation behind them, as shown in the manual, are "revealed" as being unreliable. So all the stuff in the manual about the Xe'Naga being benevolent and harmless scientists just doing experiments, all the stuff about the purities; it's all bunk. It was all really part of Amon's plan to twist the Protoss into whatever version he wanted them as.

    In WoL, the reason given for why he uplifts the Protoss and Zerg is that he wants to use them to remake the universe in his own image. But in LotV, it's clear he really just wants to destroy anything to do with the cycle and Xel'Naga. This confuses things even more because why would Amon even bother nurturing them in any capacity at all in the first place? He had full and direct control over both the Protoss and Zerg evolution from their very beginnings afterall. If he really wanted to extinguish them, he could've done so right from the start... instead he makes it harder for himself and creates a situation where he can and does eventually fail. What an idiot.
    I guess if they follow the same events, the only thing you'd have to remove are the parts about the zergs killing the XN hovering above Char because I can't see how SC2 version of XN, which are god like creatures, could get destroyed by zergs.

    But yeah, Amon's plan makes no sense. The cycle "ascendancy" thing makes no sense either. How are 2 races supposed to "come together" to Ulnar and then become XN? By "coming together" do they mean literally merging? If so then this is exactly what Amon did by creating the hybrids so why the hell would he do that as you say? And anyways, if his aim is to destroy the cycle, didn't he accomplish that by murdering the other XN? If they can't pass on their XN magic powers to 2 new races because they're dead well the cycle is pretty much broken. And if that's the case, why keep Ouros alive in the first place? Just kill him too with the others lol. And what the hell does "remaking the world to his image" means specifically? There's just so much abstraction in SC2 lore that it makes the story very confusing; in a very bad way.

  9. #59

    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post

    But yeah, Amon's plan makes no sense. The cycle "ascendancy" thing makes no sense either. How are 2 races supposed to "come together" to Ulnar and then become XN? By "coming together" do they mean literally merging? If so then this is exactly what Amon did by creating the hybrids so why the hell would he do that as you say? And anyways, if his aim is to destroy the cycle, didn't he accomplish that by murdering the other XN? If they can't pass on their XN magic powers to 2 new races because they're dead well the cycle is pretty much broken. And if that's the case, why keep Ouros alive in the first place? Just kill him too with the others lol. And what the hell does "remaking the world to his image" means specifically? There's just so much abstraction in SC2 lore that it makes the story very confusing; in a very bad way.
    The whole coming together was never explained, it's a little like merging, but certainly not the DNA recombination process like the hybrids. As for the destroying the cycle, I bet Blizzard will explain this later on by saying the Void can eventually give life to other Xel'Naga anyway, so Amon's actions in remaking the universe would bar them from entering, therefore they can't put the cycle into the multiverse anymore.

    Otherwise, if that's not the meaning of the whole remaking everything, it's just a cheap excuse for a nihilistic villain

  10. #60

    Default Re: Campaign Portraits

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    I love speculative biology projects. I'm not adverse to the Protoss having very strangely arranged anatomy, but I take issue when that biology is clearly being described by people (Blizzard) who have no idea what they're talking about and keep changing their minds about everything. The Field Manual literally labels Protoss basic anatomy "space magic." Psychic powers and mutalisk flight are already weird enough, we don't need literal logic-defying magic too.
    I get where you're coming from but it's a little bit unfair to hold them accountable for not being so thorough in their speculative biology, when it's really not their focus or the purview of the game, nor should they be expected to be some expert on the subject. If one should take issue about this aspect, one should also question why Protoss are even humanoid in the first place, how they are arbitrarily deemed as pure of form/the pinnacle of a physical specimen and how their psionics are even feasible.

    You have to keep in mind that we are talking about a fictional alien species. Their biology doesn't have to work the same or be within the same limits as what we have here on Earth. This also includes them having similarities to our known concepts in biology but not being exactly the same, too. In other words, it's all "space magic" really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mislagnissa View Post
    In the SC1 manual the Protoss were explained as adaptable to a variety of conditions. The xel'naga were interested in the Protoss because they were the apex of physical fitness: strong, fast, apex predators, adaptable to a variety of adverse conditions. SC2 retconned that and hit the Protoss with a nerfbat. Where before they seemed perfectly fine walking naked in ice fields or deserts in search of prey, now they have to wear animal furs and genetically alter themselves to survive anywhere. Their technological development before the Aeon of Strife was retconned away and attributed to xel'naga.
    I feel ya on their technological advancement being all attributed to the Xel'naga as a neutering of their identity but " being adaptable" is a very broad term and can be applied many ways. For example, humans are adaptable to a variety of conditions, too, just not in an innate "natural resistance to the elements" way.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    I guess if they follow the same events, the only thing you'd have to remove are the parts about the zergs killing the XN hovering above Char because I can't see how SC2 version of XN, which are god like creatures, could get destroyed by zergs.
    From what we have in Sc2, they only seem to be invulnerable in their own realm (where only they can harm each other it seems). Outside of that space, both Duran and Amon's "shells" could be destroyed and whilst they took an abnormal amount of punishment in order to destroy, both Duran and Amon had been planning this for a long time such that the physical shells we see may have been purposely tailored to withstand some damage given their course of action of obliterating Xel'nagan based life in the galaxy. I'm having to bend my mind into doublethink (like ShadowArchon once did) to justify it but maybe the natural Xel'naga really were just as squishy as any other life form and that they were caught off guard back then.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich_bird View Post
    But yeah, Amon's plan makes no sense. The cycle "ascendancy" thing makes no sense either. How are 2 races supposed to "come together" to Ulnar and then become XN? By "coming together" do they mean literally merging? If so then this is exactly what Amon did by creating the hybrids so why the hell would he do that as you say? And anyways, if his aim is to destroy the cycle, didn't he accomplish that by murdering the other XN? If they can't pass on their XN magic powers to 2 new races because they're dead well the cycle is pretty much broken. And if that's the case, why keep Ouros alive in the first place? Just kill him too with the others lol. And what the hell does "remaking the world to his image" means specifically? There's just so much abstraction in SC2 lore that it makes the story very confusing; in a very bad way.
    Yep. There's hardly any intradiegetic (in-universe explanation) build-up to justify these happenstances such that the viewer is forced to consider only extradiegetic reasons (out-of-universe explanation) as to why said happenstances exist at all.
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