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Thread: Overmind's Vision

  1. #1
    Gradius's Avatar Administrator
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    Default Overmind's Vision

    When the game came out, the Overmind's vision was basically seen as actual future precognition. Then in a Q&A that came out during the HoTS era, Blizzard (Brian Kindregan HoTS lead writer) said that it was literally just the Overmind piecing information together and constructing a scenario from reading Amon's mind. Then presumably, Zeratul added his own knowledge to the vision since there are protoss characters in it that the Overmind has never met.

    But then in LoTV we see Artanis and Amon reusing the same exact lines like "As I was your beginning-so shall I be your end." and Artanis gives a nearly identical variation of his speech:

    WoL: My brethren, hear me! For there is little time left. All that remains of our race, our civilization, are those that stand beside you now.


    LoTV: My Brethren, hear me! For there is little time left. All that remains of our race, our civilization, are those that stand beside you now, and those corrupted on the surface below.
    WoL: Trust in each other. Strike as one will! Let our last stand burn a memory so bright, we will be remembered forever! En taro Tassadar!


    LoTV: Trust in each other in the fight ahead. Strike as one will! Let our last stand burn a memory so bright that we will be known throughout eternity! En Taro Adun! En Taro Tassadar! En Taro Zeratul!
    So wtf really was this?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Overmind's Vision

    Ouros and Amon had a secret deal, it was all a conspiracy to get some dumb bitch to do their jobs for them.

    and also Artanis is a cliche' tornado.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Overmind's Vision

    In universe, it's probably just a coincidence or that circumstantial but arbitrary precognition does exist in some form.

    Out of universe, it's most likely an overt writers conceit. Either a deliberate callback to WoL or a lazy rehash, take your pick.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Overmind's Vision

    I bet deliberate callback. They'd want us to think that they're "clever" like that.


    "Seeing Fenix once more perplexes me. I feel sadness, when I should feel joy."
    - Artanis.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Overmind's Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    So wtf really was this?
    We already know too many people are going to say "Because Blizzard was too stupid to pay any attention, Gradius."


    Quote Originally Posted by KaiserStratosTygo View Post
    Ouros and Amon had a secret deal, it was all a conspiracy to get some dumb bitch to do their jobs for them.

    and also Artanis is a cliche' tornado.
    More like Ouros tried to sneak the message out, except he was too stupid to realize speaking with clues THAT cryptic isn't something people can recognize right off the bat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nissa View Post
    I bet deliberate callback. They'd want us to think that they're "clever" like that.
    This. I'm willing to bet after HotS, too many people felt Blizzard didn't pay the slightest bit attention to what happened in SC1, BW, or even WoL in terms of story, hence why it was necessary to at least look at the prophecy missions in WoL again when it came to LotV.
    Last edited by ragnarok; 04-24-2017 at 08:51 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Overmind's Vision

    Precognition isn't against the spirit of sci-fi. It's information traveling back in time, or perception traveling foward in time, or minds trying to cope with time as non-linear.

    But even if we go with the "prophecy is a result of mechanical determinism" cop-out, it is still possible because Protoss personalities are predictable (if compared to Terrans) and because Artanis lines might be partially inspired in other historical speeches or in Khalai literature.

    However prophecies can be an awful plot device, as they were. This is a completely different issue.

    As for Kindregan, it's clear Blizzard decided to take other directions after he departed. Artanis "repeating" almost the same lines he would say in another timeline is good writing. At worst, it conflicts with the Q&As which is a flop but not a major one.

    And I think the themes of fate and time could and should be more probed in a sci-fi way. I think that between Terrans and Protoss there is a difference of scale - they live ten times longer, are calmer and more focused, their technology is marvelous and their science is close to understanding everything in the universe. So between Protoss an Xel'Naga there must be another difference in scale. This can only be accomplished taking a step further from physics to metaphysics, but I feel this is only hinted and not well actualized in LotV.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Overmind's Vision

    It just occurred to me that that the repeated lines may also be a hold-out of the original concept of LotV having Zeratul as the protagonist. It would be a form of retrospective dramatic irony because when Z said those lines in WoL, it was at the Protoss' ultimate defeat to Amon whereas in LotV, it would be at the Protoss' ultimate victory over Amon.

    I would also guess that the "Overmind's vision" may well have been really Ouros' vision the entire time. Ouros, in the guise of "Tassadar", is the one who tells Zeratul about seeing the Overmind's vision afterall. I mean, if Ouros can't even trust Zeratul to believe his words such that he has to lie by pretending to be Tassadar, who knows how deep his lies go and whether we should believe everything he says.... By recalling those words in WoL, it may be a way to show that Ouros does indeed have some precognitive ability, to give some credence to the prophecy plot device and a demonstration that the Xel'Naga have godlike power/are gods rather than it being an informed trait as it mostly is. At the least, it's also a way to show that there are some deterministic qualities to precognition.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  8. #8

    Default Re: Overmind's Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    It just occurred to me that that the repeated lines may also be a hold-out of the original concept of LotV having Zeratul as the protagonist. It would be a form of retrospective dramatic irony because when Z said those lines in WoL, it was at the Protoss' ultimate defeat to Amon whereas in LotV, it would be at the Protoss' ultimate victory over Amon.

    I would also guess that the "Overmind's vision" may well have been really Ouros' vision the entire time. Ouros, in the guise of "Tassadar", is the one who tells Zeratul about seeing the Overmind's vision afterall. I mean, if Ouros can't even trust Zeratul to believe his words such that he has to lie by pretending to be Tassadar, who knows how deep his lies go and whether we should believe everything he says.... By recalling those words in WoL, it may be a way to show that Ouros does indeed have some precognitive ability, to give some credence to the prophecy plot device and a demonstration that the Xel'Naga have godlike power/are gods rather than it being an informed trait as it mostly is. At the least, it's also a way to show that there are some deterministic qualities to precognition.
    That's only because in the alternate timeline the Protoss didn't find out the truth until it was too late to matter. And in any case in LotV's ending (before epilogue) it was never a victory over Amon anyway. Artanis made it clear that since he was sent back into the Void, it only meant that FOR NOW, the Protoss were safe.

    As for the Overmind's vision being actually Ouros's vision, it actually depends. Recall at the end of the 2nd Ulnar mission, when Artanis and Kerrigan finally reached the Ascension chamber to find all the Xel'Naga dead, Amon contacted Artanis, saying "With the essence of the great betrayer, your people fulfill their purpose."

    The "great betrayer" had to imply the Overmind, since his host body was built on top of it. Of course this could just be Blizzard writing problems, but it could imply the Overmind DID try in some way to defy Amon's directive.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Overmind's Vision

    ^ Be that as it may, I fail to see how what you said has anything to do with whether or not the Overmind's vision has actual precognitive value.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  10. #10

    Default Re: Overmind's Vision

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    ^ Be that as it may, I fail to see how what you said has anything to do with whether or not the Overmind's vision has actual precognitive value.
    If the Overmind DID plan to betray Amon, then he must have known what Amon planned to do to him once the swarm fulfilled its purpose. This goes back to what I had said before LotV was even out, that the vision we saw in WoL was what Overmind felt would probably happen if the Protoss killed Kerrigan off without bothering to look at the prophecy.

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