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Thread: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

  1. #41

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

    ^ It just occurred to me that if the Overmind was under the influence of Amon, that Amon created that Temple on Aiur and that Amon was ultimately intending to use the Overmind as a means to be physically manifest himself, it could be that Amon planned for and "guided" the Overmind to land there all along. Whether it died or not being of no consequence.

    Makes you wonder then whether the Overmind really found and thought of Kerrigan as being a saviour for the Zerg when it supposedly had "no free will" or rather that Kerrigan was actually also part of Amon's plan to find enough energy to resurrect himself.

    This could potentially work in allowing the Overmind to still have it's own agency as seen in Sc1 but also coincide with the inclusion of Amon's plans in Sc2. The "Overmind being an unwitting pawn to Amon all along" explanation is still somewhat distasteful on a subjective level. However, it does make more sense than the paradoxical "Overmind being a slave and having no free will whatsoever but only selectively when it counts" explanation... an explanation which is cast into doubt anyway when it's revealed that the source of this explanation, Ouros, has reason to lie and is a liar.
    Last edited by Turalyon; 05-16-2017 at 04:18 AM.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  2. #42

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    ^ It just occurred to me that if the Overmind was under the influence of Amon, that Amon created that Temple on Aiur and that Amon was ultimately intending to use the Overmind as a means to be physically manifest himself, it could be that Amon planned for and "guided" the Overmind to land there all along. Whether it died or not being of no consequence.

    Makes you wonder then whether the Overmind really found and thought of Kerrigan as being a saviour for the Zerg when it supposedly had "no free will" or rather that Kerrigan was actually also part of Amon's plan to find enough energy to resurrect himself.

    This could potentially work in allowing the Overmind to still have it's own agency as seen in Sc1 but also coincide with the inclusion of Amon's plans in Sc2. The "Overmind being an unwitting pawn to Amon all along" explanation is still somewhat distasteful on a subjective level. However, it does make more sense than the paradoxical "Overmind being a slave and having no free will whatsoever but only selectively when it counts" explanation... an explanation which is cast into doubt anyway when it's revealed that the source of this explanation, Ouros, has reason to lie and is a liar.
    Did Amon really have any SPECIFIC plans for the Overmind other than merely to assimilate the Protoss people and create the hybrid? Because if there's no specifics, the Overmind still had free will in a sense in how this is to be done. If that's true, it was the Overmind's own decision to manifest itself at that Aiur location, not Amon's.

    Kerrigan wasn't supposed to be part of Amon's plan. The end cutscene of the Infinite Cycle mission made that clear, when Amon clearly stated that the Overmind was a traitor to his plans.

  3. #43

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Did Amon really have any SPECIFIC plans for the Overmind other than merely to assimilate the Protoss people and create the hybrid? Because if there's no specifics, the Overmind still had free will in a sense in how this is to be done. If that's true, it was the Overmind's own decision to manifest itself at that Aiur location, not Amon's.
    Who knows... I'd rather disbelieve anything that "Tassadar" says in WoL when it was revealed that it was Ouros all along just manipulating and lying just to get what he wanted because that would make it easier: the Overmind in Sc1 was always metaphysically free and that it did what it did not to rail against Amon but to serve the Zerg/it's own agenda of being "perfect".

    However, given that Sc2 suggests that there's "free will of a kind" with that Overmind retcon, that BW Kerrigan may have been under the influence of Amon, that Xel'Naga are gods with the power of precognition and that whatever the Overmind/Kerrigan did in Sc1/BW somehow also furthered Amons plans (or perhaps even anticipated/planned for because Amon is supposed to have some grand, masterplan apparently), the possibility exists that it is not all just coincidental.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Kerrigan wasn't supposed to be part of Amon's plan. The end cutscene of the Infinite Cycle mission made that clear, when Amon clearly stated that the Overmind was a traitor to his plans.
    I don't really get why Amon would call the Overmind the "Great Betrayer" when everything it did furthered Amon's ultimate plan for dominance and that the Overmind's actions were all potentially influenced by Amon in the first place. Had the Overmind not been killed in Sc1 by Protoss (something that was entirely out of Amon's hand/influence) and achieved it's goal, Amon would've technically won by proxy...
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  4. #44

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I don't really get why Amon would call the Overmind the "Great Betrayer" when everything it did furthered Amon's ultimate plan for dominance and that the Overmind's actions were all potentially influenced by Amon in the first place. Had the Overmind not been killed in Sc1 by Protoss (something that was entirely out of Amon's hand/influence) and achieved it's goal, Amon would've technically won by proxy...
    Well, the way I saw it could be that Amon knew all along that the Overmind hated taking orders from him (Ouros was accurate on that part) and therefore wanted a way out of the whole mess. Amon couldn't see just WHAT the Overmind was trying to do, but perhaps he knew all along the Overmind would find some way to defy him, maybe even take the swarm's control away from him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    However, given that Sc2 suggests that there's "free will of a kind" with that Overmind retcon, that BW Kerrigan may have been under the influence of Amon, that Xel'Naga are gods with the power of precognition and that whatever the Overmind/Kerrigan did in Sc1/BW somehow also furthered Amons plans (or perhaps even anticipated/planned for because Amon is supposed to have some grand, masterplan apparently), the possibility exists that it is not all just coincidental.
    Kerrigan's actions in BW suggested nothing of the kind of Amon's influence. And in any case she specifically told Zurvan that it was more like background noise or something. Back in BW she merely wanted the swarm for herself, never again to be a slave. She just didn't understand that didn't give her the right to subjugate others.

    It's something a lot of people still discuss even today: if there never was a threat from Amon, and no prophecy, just what exactly WAS she planning to do in the aftermath of BW?

  5. #45

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Well, the way I saw it could be that Amon knew all along that the Overmind hated taking orders from him
    That's a lot of supposition there. We don't even really know if the Overmind was taking orders (since Ouros/"Tassadar" says the Overmind had no free will and that he is an unreliable narrator due to his deceit) nor really whether it hated them or not, let alone consider whether Amon was aware enough of it and do something (or not) about it.

    Anyways, if we are to consider the Overmind's action in Sc1 as all being part of Amon's plan, there's nothing there to suggest that it betrayed Amon in anyway because had the Overmind not died, Amon would've won. The Overmind's death was the only thing that started the chain of events leading to Kerrigan being the one to defeat Amon, but it's death was hardly the Overmind's fault or within its ability to control (especially since it's supposed to be having no free will). By retconning that the Overmind went on Aiur to die by choice (as some have theorised but was never actually confirmed) undermines everything that the Zerg represent and is inconsistent with the Overmind supposedly having no free will. It also devalues the Protoss' victory over the Zerg (ie: the Protoss only won not because of their tenacity but because the Overmind allowed it to happen). There was discussion on this matter awhile back...

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Kerrigan's actions in BW suggested nothing of the kind of Amon's influence. And in any case she specifically told Zurvan that it was more like background noise or something. Back in BW she merely wanted the swarm for herself, never again to be a slave. She just didn't understand that didn't give her the right to subjugate others.
    In light of Sc2, t's kinda odd that they didn't retcon this more obviously to specifically say that BW Kerrigan was under Amon's influence. It would've helped pawn off Sc2's idea of Kerrigan having always been good deep-down and also would have given those insane Kerrigan apologists a precedent.

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    It's something a lot of people still discuss even today: if there never was a threat from Amon, and no prophecy, just what exactly WAS she planning to do in the aftermath of BW?
    She makes it clear in her speech at the end of BW. She allows them a reprieve in order to test their resolve and strengths but that they'll ultimately be all hers in the end for none shall ever dispute her rule again. In short, she was planning to either kill or enslave them all eventually.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  6. #46

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

    She makes it clear in her speech at the end of BW. She allows them a reprieve in order to test their resolve and strengths but that they'll ultimately be all hers in the end for none shall ever dispute her rule again. In short, she was planning to either kill or enslave them all eventually.
    I liked the narrative of an abuse victim given power over her abusers, and taking things to the Nth degree. I always wanted and expected a more psychological story with Heart of the Swarm, but was naturally disappointed.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  7. #47

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    In light of Sc2, t's kinda odd that they didn't retcon this more obviously to specifically say that BW Kerrigan was under Amon's influence. It would've helped pawn off Sc2's idea of Kerrigan having always been good deep-down and also would have given those insane Kerrigan apologists a precedent.
    Somehow I don't think Blizzard really thought about that part, they just expected the players to shoot off theories (like how we did at the end of BW with the hybrid Duran made)

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    She makes it clear in her speech at the end of BW. She allows them a reprieve in order to test their resolve and strengths but that they'll ultimately be all hers in the end for none shall ever dispute her rule again. In short, she was planning to either kill or enslave them all eventually.
    Which really makes you wonder why she was thinking maybe the BW ending was a hollow victory for her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    I liked the narrative of an abuse victim given power over her abusers, and taking things to the Nth degree. I always wanted and expected a more psychological story with Heart of the Swarm, but was naturally disappointed.
    That's because Blizzard didn't know how to develop her, so they thought "Oh well there's no SC lore fan alive anymore who remembers her as anything BUT the QoB, so let's just revert her back. No one will notice."

  8. #48

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    I liked the narrative of an abuse victim given power over her abusers, and taking things to the Nth degree. I always wanted and expected a more psychological story with Heart of the Swarm, but was naturally disappointed.
    Ditto. I remember mentioning some of the psychological aspects that they could've employed around the time when HotS was about to be released. One of these ways I put forth was to explore how Kerrigan, in her deinfested state, comes to realise that she is still a monster and may have always been despite being human again. A realisation that is triggered by her killing Mengsk of all things. That realisation would lead her to become the monster on the outside to match the monster within by going back to the Zerg...

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Which really makes you wonder why she was thinking maybe the BW ending was a hollow victory for her.
    I liked to think of this as the beginning of Kerrigan slowing becoming aware of the consequences that stem from her own pschological damage.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  9. #49

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Thoughts on Legacy of the Void

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    I liked to think of this as the beginning of Kerrigan slowing becoming aware of the consequences that stem from her own pschological damage.
    Somehow I doubt that. We all know actions have consequences, but it seemed in BW her mentality was that she could get around that.

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