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Thread: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

  1. #1
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    LotV is easily the best game in the SC2 trilogy in my opinion. Not writing a review this time because my only motivation was to raise enough awareness so that the protoss campaign would be the best. But here's some bulletpoint first impressions:


    - Amazing graphics!
    - Harder campaign than HoTS for sure.
    - Mind Controlling the Golden Armada in the first mission was a ballsy move. Good thing the writers retconned a Spear of Adun ship into existence that can wage a war all on its own haha.
    - Zeratul just randomly turns into dust when he dies. What?
    - Didn't Zeratul say that the Xel'Naga want Kerrigan restored to power, which implies that he talked to Xel'Naga. So how did he not know they were dead? Ouros would have known and wouldn't have omitted that information.
    - Selendis looks nothing like she does in Wings of Liberty.
    - I thought the spear of adun was buried in a random spot according to the short stories, not literally placed under the conclave so that it destroys their HQ when it launches.
    - The artifact probably has to be the biggest Deus Ex Machina in all of video games. Turns out it only does everything. Transmutes matter, and energy and essence and back again, and imprisons Amon, etc. etc.
    - "Void" is LoTV's buzzword just like HoTS's was "essence". Take a shot every time you hear void.
    - I feel like the protoss losing the Khala shouldn't be remotely feasible. Isn't it established that mastering any one of those arts takes decades/centuries of training? Artanis literally picks up the void in like 30 minutes. Then all the zealots in the arcship do the same. None of the khalai protoss should even be able to use psionics at this point. Yet Artanis and other units still clearly use powers that require the Khala (his warp blades are blue/green to show off his twilight nature). How does this make any sense?
    - Wish we had Twilight Archons or Twilight Templar.
    - Can't help but feel that Zeratul has been abused in every way possible. Turned from an ninja alien badass sage in SC1 to a doomsaying old man in SC2. And now that the prophecy nonsense is over, Blizzard has no more use for him as a character, and killed him. Talk about character assassination.
    - Rohanna is a badass. The epitome of an alien, not even living in her own time.
    - Karax's beard irritates me to no end. At least his voice isn't totally cliche. Was expecting him to have a deep voice and/or sound like a dwarf.
    - The Spear of Adun is a badass contraption.
    - The Shakuras Xel'Naga temple artifact mission took me on a serious nostalgia trip. Holding back waves of zerg from the warp gate. Artanis activating the temple. Good times.
    - Destroying Shakuras was a ballsy move on the part of the writers as well. Kudos. However, I'd say many of these events move way too fast. I don't know if this is at all believable given the whole point of the protoss is their antagonism towards change.
    - Artanis is becoming my favorite character. I still don't think he should be a powerful warrior given that he spends all his time as a government official, but it's good to know that he was the badass mofo that I played as in SC1 episode 3.
    - Fenix. Yet another character revival. But at least this has a plausible sci-fi explanation, so I'm not too broke up about it. Also, at least they somewhat tried with his voice. Love his side stories though! Some actual worldbuilding!
    - The fight scenes are sick. It's nice watching Kerrigan get her ass kicked.
    - I thought Ulnar was supposed to be a twilight planet, not a space construct, and not in the milky way. Pretty much all of In Utter Darkness is retconned. No Urun. No mind controlled Protoss coming to get you. Hell, we're even using the Khala in that mission.
    - I think I was kind of on point with my Xel'Naga theory: http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthrea...iverse-Origins
    - As well as the fact that the Protoss shouldn't have tried to retake Aiur: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/10895830045
    - I guess preservers don't exist anymore and all their stored memories are gone? Rohana honestly shouldn't have cut her nerve cords. Just keep her in stasis and preserve the memories of all your people. Small price to pay...
    - The Xel'Naga never uplifted the protoss, Amon did. Another blatant SC1 manual retcon. Destroys the whole thing about the Xel'Naga being scientists.
    - How does this fit into the DT saga? Where did Zamara get her memories of the actual Xel'Naga who never interfered in our universe? How does she know about the natural cycle? Who built those labs beneath Aiur? It was all Amon? Why didn't he bring some Tal'Darim with him to Zerus and just make some Hybrids right there?
    - Why even MAKE hybrids instead of assimilating protoss like the Overmind was originally going to? You don't have to abduct any protoss and you could spawn Hybrids en-masse from Hatcheries.
    - Why did Amon make Narud help Kerrigan in BW? Seriously, what was the point if he already knew in advance that only she could stop his plans?
    - What about the Phoenix creatures in the DT Saga and Shadow of the Xel'Naga? There are ordered temples like the one on Shakuras, and wild ones that house phoenix creatures. What is their purpose? What exactly did the normal Xel'Naga who don't interfere with anything actually build then? It's all very confusing.
    - Why was Amon not in control of the Protoss empire like he was the Tal'Darim? Narud could have done that for him and saved a headache.
    - I've asked this before, but again, how does Amon actually plan to remake creation in his image given the vastness of the universe, let alone multiverse? Aren't there are other universes now where the cycle is still going on? The sheer scope would undermine his own efforts.
    - Probably the worst thing about the dialog is the "Friend Raynor" and "Friend Fenix" crap that the writers just can't seem to let go of.
    - Alarak doesn't suck, but his voice is Covetous Shen from D3. Can't really take him seriously because I just think of a cartoon character. Still, one of the better characters in LoTV. Since he's the top protoss in the chain of ascension, does this mean he's being fed lots of power? Explains how he broke out of his stasis cage so easily, or Vorazun's surprise at how he destroyed both the door and the zerg behind it on that Aiur mission.
    - Why the heck is every bad faction red now? Gets confusing when Taldarim and corrupted protoss are all red.
    - I hate all the science fantasy bullcrap. The shades that are like normal units yet weaker. What the hell are they made of and who controls them? It's stupid that Amon can mind control an entire race and his mysterious essence flows out of each protoss' nerve tendrils when the artifact goes off. I can't believe the void is an actual hidden layer of reality that's just like normal reality. Makes no sense. I thought it was merely an energy source. Obviously the tone of SC2 is obviously a huge departure, and downgrade, from SC1.
    - Thank you for ignoring the Primal Zerg. Phew! Not sarcasm, I'm legitimately glad I didn't have to hear Dehaka's grating voice.
    - Ouros reminds me of the Leviathans from ME3. Finally meeting the beginning of all life in the galaxy and all that. And they look similar.
    - Ouros tricked Zeratul into thinking he was Tassadar? Now THAT is a twist I didn't see coming. Almost feels like a response to the critics. Like SC2's version of ME3's indoctrination theory, but actually in the game.
    - Why doesn't Amon even have a functioning body by the start of LoTV? Narud said we already revived him.
    - The epilogue. What the hell happened? We had a semi-decent ending with the main campaign where we didn't have the cliche 3 races team up to fight Amon ending (psych!). Kerrigan ascends to godhood, the one person who's been shown to be the least responsible and judicious with her use of power. Why her? She's terran/zerg. Why not Artanis? Why not require one of each? The entire buildup of combining purity of form and essence to continue the cycle has been demolished. It's not supposed to be a Terran hybrid who becomes the next generation of Xel'Naga! Why couldn't we have gotten an epilogue that actually took us back to what StarCraft is supposed to be about: galactic domination and politics? Extremely disappointing. And I'm sorry, but entirely different universes shouldn't even be mentioned or even be in the scope of StarCraft.
    - Kerrigan is an angel.
    - I love how HoTS's lead writer said that Kerrigan isn't necessarily the savior of the universe, just a leader that can keep zerg away from Amon and give everyone else a fighting chance. But now she ascends to godhood and is the chosen one who saved the universe like everyone was saying all along. What a complete 180.
    - So Kerrigan left a bloodthirsty Broodmother in charge of the swarm who has already began forcibly retaking planets after LoTV. Great job atoning for your mistakes Kerrigan! What a disgrace that this character got all the power in the universe and a happy ending on top of it. She talks about paying for her crimes, and when she accepts Ouros's power it's understood that she's sacrificing her happy ending with Jim to help save the universe. Psych! Just kidding! This is SC2. Happy ending for you! Happy ending for you! Happy ending for everyone! Christ, this was terrible. Just more of the writers failing to decide if they want a serious epic sci-fi, or a lighthearted cartoon that's accessible to everyone.
    - The epilogue should have been an actual epilogue that showed what the races were doing after Amon was dealt with. It wasn't an epilogue, it was a continuation of the main storyline and a bitter disappointment considering that instead of getting back to galactic politics and perhaps setting the stage for more lore or another game, we dive headlong into fantasy bull$hit.
    - Loving the Field Manual. Good job Robear!
    - Again, I easily enjoyed LoTV far more than the others. It's a marked improvement. Not sure how I feel about the upcoming Nova DLC though. It's hard to take a universe seriously where you can't use logic or critical thinking to theorycraft or make deductions given that anything could be retconned.
    Last edited by Gradius; 11-14-2015 at 11:36 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    Some responses though; there were a couple things you overlooked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    - I thought Ulnar was supposed to be a twilight planet, not a space construct, and not in the milky way. Pretty much all of In Utter Darkness is retconned. No Urun. No mind controlled Protoss coming to get you. Hell, we're even using the Khala in that mission.
    I don't believe they explicitly stated the planet in In Utter Darkness was the Xel'naga homeworld. I took it as just a random planet the protoss happened to be cornered on.

    - How does this fit into the DT saga? Where did Zamara get her memories of the actual Xel'Naga who never interfered in our universe? How does she know about the natural cycle? Who built those labs beneath Aiur? It was all Amon? Why didn't he bring some Tal'Darim with him to Zerus and just make some Hybrids right there?
    - What about the Phoenix creatures in the DT Saga and Shadow of the Xel'Naga? There are ordered temples like the one on Shakuras, and wild ones that house phoenix creatures. What is their purpose? What exactly did the normal Xel'Naga who don't interfere with anything actually build then? It's all very confusing.
    Blizzard has stupidly decided to ignore the novels unless specific parts of them are useful. Notice that most of the stuff that actually happened in the DT Saga was either retconned (Tal'darim), ignored (Zamara, Ulrezaj), or brought into the games and explained again anyway (Valerian, preservers). The trilogy turned out to be a waste of time.

    - Why did Amon make Narud help Kerrigan in BW? Seriously, what was the point if he already knew in advance that only she could stop his plans?
    I'd wager it was to make her more powerful and make the zerg stronger, so when he pulls the rug out from under her and drains her power to revive Amon, he has more to drain, and then Amon takes control of the zerg now that Kerrigan has been keeping his seat warm for him for the last four years.

    - Why the heck is every bad faction red now? Gets confusing when Taldarim and corrupted protoss are all red.
    I would have preferred a distinction too. However, it actually makes sense to use that same color; Red has usually been preserved for the elite and/or evil factions: Daggoth's brood and Zerg heroes, the Dominion (and Duran's mercenaries, by coincidence), and the Judicators in SC1.

    - I hate all the science fantasy bullcrap. The shades that are like normal units yet weaker. What the hell are they made of and who controls them?
    Agreed. The Shadows of the Void in the Whispers of Oblivion prologue was taken to the point of absurdity

    - Why doesn't Amon even have a functioning body by the start of LoTV? Narud said we already revived him.
    As I understand it, Amon was in the Void, trapped and/or weaken, and Kerrigan's energy gave him the strength to begin exerting his power from outside the Void. The other bit, the Xel'naga don't have permanent bodies outside of the Void. Hence he was making the primary host body.

    Also agreed: Void is a silly buzzword (called that in Whispers of Oblivion Abridged ), and the epilogue is awful from a story point. I find it hilariously underwhelming how much Kerrigan sucks in that mission, they just give her stronger versions of the HotS abilities she already had. Xel'Kerrigan should be an army unto herself, a being that can run into a whole enemy army and kick their asses. Instead she's rather fragile and pathetic.
    SC2 handle - "DrakeyC, code 929"

    I ARE A PROPHET! I've predicted three major aspects of SC2 correct, more or less.

    June 2007 - I predicted the Protoss campaign would give you new tech as you conducted diplomacy among tribes.

    Hidden Content:
    July 18th 2010 - I predicted Raynor would broadcast information of Mengsk's actions on Tarsonis to discredit him and incite rebellion.


    Hidden Content:
    June 16th 2010 I predicted the Voice in the Darkness was the commanding force behind the Hybrids. I'm calling it half-right.

  3. #3
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Clawfang View Post
    I don't believe they explicitly stated the planet in In Utter Darkness was the Xel'naga homeworld. I took it as just a random planet the protoss happened to be cornered on.
    It was called Ulnar in the planet info. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Ulnar

    I'd wager it was to make her more powerful and make the zerg stronger, so when he pulls the rug out from under her and drains her power to revive Amon, he has more to drain, and then Amon takes control of the zerg now that Kerrigan has been keeping his seat warm for him for the last four years.
    But she's the only one who can stop his plans. Why not kill her and insert another Overmind or something? He should have been helping Daggoth during the Brood War who would gladly have done so.

    He needed her alive to revive Amon? I guess that works. But it seems like a very contrived reason to keep your enemy around. Hard to believe he couldn't just find some energy from somewhere else...

    As I understand it, Amon was in the Void, trapped and/or weaken, and Kerrigan's energy gave him the strength to begin exerting his power from outside the Void. The other bit, the Xel'naga don't have permanent bodies outside of the Void. Hence he was making the primary host body.
    But he never died. He existed in the void the whole time with all his crystals that made him super powerful. I thought he could still affect stuff from in the void as well like when he whispers to Kerrigan or communes with the Tal'Darim. And if he didn't have a finished host body in HoTS, why did Narud even say that he lives again? He didn't actually revive him.

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    I didn't like the way Rohana was handled myself. Even with the Khala compromised, even with Artanis coming to believe it was a misguided, divisive force in the first place, the memories of every Protoss who ever lived are an incredibly precious resource. One that I really really really don't think either of those characters would be willing to give up. Rohana should have been put in stasis. There could have been a whole cutscene, about how if they fail to defeat Amon she will never be revived, and even if they succeed the Khala will be finished, and with no one for her to connect to she'd be completely alone and all that.

    But, for everyone's talk of saying "En Taro Adun" all the time, nobody's curious about the memories of people who knew him? When she's standing right there for most of the game with those memories? (I guess she was so hostile to the Nerazim because she was put into stasis before Adun died, so she didn't have his memories of hanging out with them and finding out they were fine, but that could have been another nice bit of dialogue between her and Artanis.) Or Khas, for that matter? And especially with so many Protoss civilians dead, isn't the aggregate knowledge of all Protoss artists and architects ever something of value? That short story with her describes collaboration between current khalai artisans with the knowledge of the past in a way that seems really cool and useful. No one ever asks her about anything, she just pipes up with "even such and such judicator wasn't this stupid."

    I guess part of the message was that no old Protoss culture would survive the unification of all the different cultures, so maybe Artanis was fine with starting from scratch, but I think Rohana could have used at least some more thinking about it or reflection before severing her own nerve cords.

  5. #5

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    I am very happy with the LotV campaign. It has several minor inconsistencies when looked at on a vacuum. It is a game that explains itself well enough, but I am angry that they retconned pretty much everything.

    I feel like the Epilogue was equally rushes to the prologue and had many constraints.

    -I blurted out a crooked laugh when Raynor said "No! Kerrigan, you can't do it!", just as they meet Ouros and his proposal.
    -Phoenix Kerrigan was a bad decision. They could have gone something more Human WITHOUT WINGS like D3 Archon.
    -I am very confused by the resulting Xel'naga circle. I thought Artanis and Kerrigan were merging. Maybe Artanis needs some DLC so this was one of the constraints.
    -The Void realm is not special. The implementation is uninteresting and much closer to a fantasy hell. I would accept a rift between universes way easier.
    -Stukov said hi.
    -No ending cinematic

    That being said. Overall, I am very happy with the full game. The conclusion was necessary. It's great that they got the guts to end the era. Not the best ending, but it was a decent ending. Now that the Xel'naga thing is in the past, SC3 can go back to the sci-fi soap opera or the SC2 DLC for now. I kind of liked that Kerrigan and Raynor get to seed life into the universe by fucking around in the void as gods.

    @Robear: I agree with you, mate. Something else that bugged me was that Nerazim and Khalai factions disappeared. At the start of the campaign it felt like the Nerazim did not even wanted to retake Aiur; and Vorazun and Artanis were in the worst terms possible.

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    Really good points all around Grad. I kinda shut my brain off when I played so I missed/turned a blind eye on most of these. Many of these inconsistencies did make the story hard to follow at times though.

  7. #7

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    The epilogue. What the hell happened? We had a semi-decent ending with the main campaign where we didn't have the cliche 3 races team up to fight Amon ending (psych!). Kerrigan ascends to godhood, the one person who's been shown to be the least responsible and judicious with her use of power. Why her? She's terran/zerg. Why not Artanis? Why not require one of each? The entire buildup of combining purity of form and essence to continue the cycle has been demolished. It's not supposed to be a Terran hybrid who becomes the next generation of Xel'Naga! Why couldn't we have gotten an epilogue that actually took us back to what StarCraft is supposed to be about: galactic domination and politics? Extremely disappointing. And I'm sorry, but entirely different universes shouldn't even be mentioned or even be in the scope of StarCraft.
    It's not a plothole, Gradius. This happened because the Protoss were uplifted by Amon, not the regular Xel'Naga, making them tainted. The original plan was merely to have them left alone to have purity of form. This was why only the terran race could qualify. Wasn't a great idea, but it made sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    I love how HoTS's lead writer said that Kerrigan isn't necessarily the savior of the universe, just a leader that can keep zerg away from Amon and give everyone else a fighting chance. But now she ascends to godhood and is the chosen one who saved the universe like everyone was saying all along. What a complete 180.
    That was merely for the sake of redemption, though this certainly could have been done better. She should have done those things in HotS. By LotV it was late in the day for it all

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    Oh! Thought I was on another thread. Sorry Grad.

    I agree with most of your points to an extent, Grad. I learned not to expect much book lore followup after WoL and HotS. I was really aware of most of the retcons during my first playthrough, but some were either expected or reworking things that were broken in the last two games.

    I think I am as excited as you are or even less about the Void entities.

    Another buzz word is "abomination". Finish your drink if you hear it.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    Oh! Thought I was on another thread. Sorry Grad.

    I agree with most of your points to an extent, Grad. I learned not to expect much book lore followup after WoL and HotS. I was really aware of most of the retcons during my first playthrough, but some were either expected or reworking things that were broken in the last two games.

    I think I am as excited as you are or even less about the Void entities.

    Another buzz word is "abomination". Finish your drink if you hear it.
    This is why before Blizzard does any more work in the SC universe AT ALL, they need to hire more lore keepers, to see what can work, and what can't work for the lore, and which contradictory lore they need to throw out. Let's just start with that.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: [Spoilers] Gradius's LoTV Thoughts

    LoTV summary: When we go into the Void we'll need use our Void Rays to destroy the Void Thrashers that are guarding the Void Crystals that are spawning Amon's Void shades which we'll destroy to reduce Amon's Void powers.

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