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Thread: So yeah...LotV?

  1. #151

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon
    I was talking about cultural identity/essence not general effectiveness.
    So was I. You just did not understand the point I made.

    I pointed out that Zerg essence/"culture" does not necessarily mean that they absolutely have to be a hivemind to be considered uniquely Zerg. The "culture" of individuality is not an exclusively human thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon
    one could easily say things about how the Terrans and Protoss are just as effective, too.
    Their "culture" is not as unique as you think. Protoss Dark Templar thrive on the power of the individual, so do humans of the K-sector (especially in the case of people like Jim Raynor, Prince Valerian and Arcturus Mengsk). That said, Protoss also have quasi-hivemind with no set singular leader, like the Zerg's hivemind, in the Khala. You already know this, of course. I am merely demonstrating the point that having individuality does not necessarily detract from the essence of being a certain race.

  2. #152

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    This has nothing to do with what I was saying. I was talking about cultural identity/essence not general effectiveness. If you're talking about effectiveness, one could easily say things about how the Terrans and Protoss are just as effective, too.
    Not on the terran side. They're too plagued by leadership that's too damn arrogant for their own good. To a very small degree, this was slightly shown even in the DT Saga under Valerian.

  3. #153

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Not on the terran side. They're too plagued by leadership that's too damn arrogant for their own good. To a very small degree, this was slightly shown even in the DT Saga under Valerian.
    Exactly. It comes down to being the right kind of character for the job, in a manner of speaking. Being romantic about the Zerg hivemind is not very smart.

  4. #154

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    Exactly. It comes down to being the right kind of character for the job, in a manner of speaking. Being romantic about the Zerg hivemind is not very smart.
    This was why it was a shame for Tassadar to make the sacrifice at the end of SC1. He would have certainly done a better leadership. The Conclave were too idiotic to understand the need to change traditions.

  5. #155

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    This was why it was a shame for Tassadar to make the sacrifice at the end of SC1. He would have certainly done a better leadership. The Conclave were too idiotic to understand the need to change traditions.
    I agree, but it also made for a grand finale for the Protoss episode. I liked it despite the implications.

  6. #156

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    I agree, but it also made for a grand finale for the Protoss episode. I liked it despite the implications.
    Yeah but to me, the BW ending made his sacrifice pointless. Sure we got introduced to Amon and everything in SC2, but by BW alone, it just seemed like everything had been for nothing.

    This was the same for WoL. Sure Raynor is glad Kerrigan is free of Amon's taint, but even if she had told him EVERY detail of what happened since they were separated from each other at the Umojan facility, Raynor would be disappointed in that Kerrigan was supposed to have been better than that.

    Now, if we switch over to LotV, this shows the same pointlessness of it all. Artanis has been building the Golden Armada for years in the hopes to retake Aiur. Within just a few hours of Amon's actions, the armada is gone, leaving him with nothing.

    Don't forget, there's only 2 things holding the Khalai and Nerazim societies together right now. One is the reclamation of Aiur, the other is the hatred for the swarm. So with the former gone....

  7. #157

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Yeah but to me, the BW ending made his sacrifice pointless. Sure we got introduced to Amon and everything in SC2, but by BW alone, it just seemed like everything had been for nothing.

    This was the same for WoL. Sure Raynor is glad Kerrigan is free of Amon's taint, but even if she had told him EVERY detail of what happened since they were separated from each other at the Umojan facility, Raynor would be disappointed in that Kerrigan was supposed to have been better than that.

    Now, if we switch over to LotV, this shows the same pointlessness of it all. Artanis has been building the Golden Armada for years in the hopes to retake Aiur. Within just a few hours of Amon's actions, the armada is gone, leaving him with nothing.

    Don't forget, there's only 2 things holding the Khalai and Nerazim societies together right now. One is the reclamation of Aiur, the other is the hatred for the swarm. So with the former gone....

    I can see what you're getting at. I still think that there is much more to each of those outcomes than has been discussed. To be blunt, they only seem pointless when viewed in the literal sense. You said so yourself: only if we isolated each portion of the story does it seem to ttrivialize some of the outcomes. This is why you should be looking at the big picture and not draw any final conclusions until you know every possible chain of events and their implications.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    Yeah but to me, the BW ending made his sacrifice pointless. Sure we got introduced to Amon and everything in SC2, but by BW alone, it just seemed like everything had been for nothing.

    This was the same for WoL. Sure Raynor is glad Kerrigan is free of Amon's taint, but even if she had told him EVERY detail of what happened since they were separated from each other at the Umojan facility, Raynor would be disappointed in that Kerrigan was supposed to have been better than that.

    Now, if we switch over to LotV, this shows the same pointlessness of it all. Artanis has been building the Golden Armada for years in the hopes to retake Aiur. Within just a few hours of Amon's actions, the armada is gone, leaving him with nothing.

    Don't forget, there's only 2 things holding the Khalai and Nerazim societies together right now. One is the reclamation of Aiur, the other is the hatred for the swarm. So with the former gone....

    I can see what you're getting at. I still think that there is much more to each of those outcomes than has been discussed. To be blunt, they only seem pointless when viewed in the literal sense. You said so yourself: only if we isolated each portion of the story does it seem to ttrivialize some of the outcomes. This is why you should be looking at the big picture and not draw any final conclusions until you know every possible chain of events and their implications.

  8. #158

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    I can see what you're getting at. I still think that there is much more to each of those outcomes than has been discussed. To be blunt, they only seem pointless when viewed in the literal sense. You said so yourself: only if we isolated each portion of the story does it seem to ttrivialize some of the outcomes. This is why you should be looking at the big picture and not draw any final conclusions until you know every possible chain of events and their implications.

    - - - Updated - - -




    I can see what you're getting at. I still think that there is much more to each of those outcomes than has been discussed. To be blunt, they only seem pointless when viewed in the literal sense. You said so yourself: only if we isolated each portion of the story does it seem to ttrivialize some of the outcomes. This is why you should be looking at the big picture and not draw any final conclusions until you know every possible chain of events and their implications.
    True. I mean the first 3 HotS missions were very well done, I liked those a lot. The Char and Korhal arcs were both reasonable, I didn't mind those. But even on Char you can see it wasn't all pointless.

    Remember, no matter WHAT order you do the missions in, Kerrigan did not know Raynor was still alive until AFTER the Char, Zerus, and Kaldir arcs. That she gave Warfield a chance proved her humanity didn't die.

    If Zeratul had been monitoring her actions this whole time before Zerus, it would explain his actions. The only Q now is will his actions be worth it or not.

  9. #159

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    True. I mean the first 3 HotS missions were very well done, I liked those a lot. The Char and Korhal arcs were both reasonable, I didn't mind those. But even on Char you can see it wasn't all pointless.

    Remember, no matter WHAT order you do the missions in, Kerrigan did not know Raynor was still alive until AFTER the Char, Zerus, and Kaldir arcs. That she gave Warfield a chance proved her humanity didn't die.

    If Zeratul had been monitoring her actions this whole time before Zerus, it would explain his actions. The only Q now is will his actions be worth it or not.
    That's exactly it. I am glad you see that there are finally pieces of the puzzle that are starting to take shape.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ragnarok View Post
    True. I mean the first 3 HotS missions were very well done, I liked those a lot. The Char and Korhal arcs were both reasonable, I didn't mind those. But even on Char you can see it wasn't all pointless.

    Remember, no matter WHAT order you do the missions in, Kerrigan did not know Raynor was still alive until AFTER the Char, Zerus, and Kaldir arcs. That she gave Warfield a chance proved her humanity didn't die.

    If Zeratul had been monitoring her actions this whole time before Zerus, it would explain his actions. The only Q now is will his actions be worth it or not.
    That's exactly it. I am glad you see that there are finally pieces of the puzzle that are starting to take shape.

  10. #160

    Default Re: So yeah...LotV?

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    That's exactly it. I am glad you see that there are finally pieces of the puzzle that are starting to take shape.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's exactly it. I am glad you see that there are finally pieces of the puzzle that are starting to take shape.


    See the problem here is that going against what you stand for has to holds its weight.

    This was done 4 times already:

    Tassadar did this in SC1 by going against what the Khalai stood for. It was for his people and ultimately worked in killing the Overmind, though it was too late to save Aiur.

    Raynor too did this in WoL by going against the Raiders in accepting Valerian's alliance to invade Char. This was for the terrans in the sector, and ultimately DID stop the Zerg invasion.

    Zeratul did the same in HotS for even an bigger goal in saving ALL life in the universe against Amon, we'll see how this'll play out in LotV.

    Kerrigan too went against the swarm for contacting the Raiders and everything, but many have said this doesn't count since it was only for getting Raynor back, and she knew all along that she'd face a VERY cold reception from him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    That's exactly it. I am glad you see that there are finally pieces of the puzzle that are starting to take shape.

    - - - Updated - - -

    That's exactly it. I am glad you see that there are finally pieces of the puzzle that are starting to take shape.


    See the problem here is that going against what you stand for has to holds its weight.

    This was done 4 times already:

    Tassadar did this in SC1 by going against what the Khalai stood for. It was for his people and ultimately worked in killing the Overmind, though it was too late to save Aiur.

    Raynor too did this in WoL by going against the Raiders in accepting Valerian's alliance to invade Char. This was for the terrans in the sector, and ultimately DID stop the Zerg invasion.

    Zeratul did the same in HotS for even an bigger goal in saving ALL life in the universe against Amon, we'll see how this'll play out in LotV.

    Kerrigan too went against the swarm for contacting the Raiders and everything, but many have said this doesn't count since it was only for getting Raynor back, and she knew all along that she'd face a VERY cold reception from him.

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