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Thread: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

  1. #1

    Default So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    Specifically, I mean that this is a bloody heroes game. Now, story problems aside, I really liked playing Wings of Liberty. And I replayed it multiple times. Some of those missions are quite challenging and required innovative strategies. Especially Supernova. I also obviously played the original StarCraft campaigns a ton of times. But Heart of the Swarm? I played it once and never wanted to do so again. The entire thing revolves around Kerrigan, once you've figured out a powerful combination of abilities you can pretty much do the same thing all the time. There's some amazingly powerful stuff in there - there are Swarm Hosts that can teleport anywhere on creep! - but I've never used them, because Kerrigan/Ultra/Hydra bludgeon solves pretty much everything. I got Mutalisks for a few achievements, but there's no reason to use them normally - you'll want to bring Kerrigan anywhere you attack, and she can't fly. And aside from that, there are a lot of baseless missions - Back in the Saddle, Enemy Within, Supreme, With Friends Like These, Conviction. Even the missions where you do have bases are frequently low resources - one- or two-basing. If you go to Char before going to Kaldir, as I did, Fire in the Sky expects you to complete the whole mission off one-base ling/bane with Queens.

    Now, I recognise that I'm in the minority in wanting these RPG elements out of the games I play, because evidently they keep creeping everywhere, but seriously. I've given up on the story for Legacy of the Void, but I desperately hope the gameplay is more like Wings of Liberty than Heart of the Swarm.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  2. #2

    Default Re: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    You should play HotS on Brutal difficulty - it's a tad more fun that way.

    As to the longevity of the campaign gameplay, well, the only reason I've suffered through the gameplay of Sc1 repeatedly in the past (even though I could just use cheats) was to experience the story. Without that here in Sc2, all you have is a bunch of gimmicky missions that were great the first time around only. Jacking the difficulty is the only thing that could keep things interesting really.

    LotV shouldn't have too many RPG elements as I don't see Zeratul somehow starting from scratch and then gaining experience for his powers again. I'd like the possibility of having pieces of war-gear that are available from the start so that you can choose whatever you want depending on one's playstyle. They would ideally either have a boost to a stat or give him an ability with some potential for mixing-and-matching but nothing too OP like some in HotS. If they wanted to add more RPG stuff, they should restrict those to specific "installation" missions (and make them massive) whilst keeping it separate from the RTS/open battlefield type missions. It'll be good if they can keep a good mix with the mission gimmicks - there seems to be too many that are just disguised timers for the mission.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  3. #3

    Default Re: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    You should play HotS on Brutal difficulty - it's a tad more fun that way.
    Heh. I am. I only once played non-Brutal, and that was for the Wings of Liberty speedrun achievement.

    Seriously though. Ultra/Hydra/Kerrigan rolls over everything.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  4. #4

    Default Re: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    Problem was that the campaign was way too easy. The race/Kerrigan upgrades were far too good. Plus, too many unnecessary upgrades as well. (Did we really need insta-Ovies?) Might have also helped to give Terran/Protoss some big upgrades to help size up the difficulty. TBH, outside of the 'Swarm Host' level, (cant remember the name right now) I cant really recall an overly difficult scenario, even on brutal. Zerg is easily my worst race, so I can only imagine what regular Zerg players were thinking. However, did it a 2nd time to clean up the achievements - and found it more fun when using Kerrigan solo to defend bases. Also, should point out that *any* unit combo in addition to Kerrigan pretty much rolls over anything. There were more than a few scenarios I finished with Kerrigan solo, and just a few units back at home to defend.
    Last edited by Caliban113; 11-06-2013 at 03:33 PM.
    "Wait.....no Gzhee-Gzhee.....?.....whu......Why no Ghzhee-Gzhee?!?!?!?!"


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  5. #5
    RetlocLive's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    The race/Kerrigan upgrades were far too good. Plus, too many unnecessary upgrades as well. (Did we really need insta-Ovies?)
    WoL had its share of bad upgrades as well. Who in their right mind would pick the infantry drop-pods over building two units in a time? Not to mention the dreadful Predator/Hercules choice.

    TBH, outside of the 'Swarm Host' level, (cant remember the name right now) I cant really recall an overly difficult scenario, even on brutal.
    Which isn't a surprising at all since its the one mission you don't have a hero unit. =p

    As for myself, it's basically the same as Turalyon. I played through the regular SC many times, because I appreciated the world that was created despite the repetitive mission gameplay that was, almost always, the "build an army, go destroy enemy base" scenario. BW added a little depth to the mission game-play, but it was still pretty straight forward.

    For SC2, despite WoL's terrible story, I actually did play the campaign a lot because of the mission set-up. It made for interesting set-ups to see what I could have for missions on one playthrough compared to another. As for HotS...I actually only played the campaign once. It was ok, but like others have already stated, its just too easy; even if Kerrigan wasn't used, and the replay variety is nowhere close to what WoL offered.

  6. #6

    Default Re: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    The trouble was, they never seemed to try. With WoL, they had things like lots of people to talk to, an arcade game to play, and the fact that since Raynor does whatever he wants, he can end up in a lot of locations. Kerrigan doesn't really have any of that. There were (and are) few Zerg characters of interest (I miss Zasz), there's no entertainment on a flying space bug, and Kerrigan at the outset has to be given a motivation. They thus set out to make up for these flaws by making Kerri herself "fun" to play, so that something interesting would be going on. Trouble is, this messed up the main gameplay style.

    They could have done something with the craft she used to fly to her...what's the creature called again? Anyway, she lands the craft on the creature, but then the craft gets ignored the rest of the game. That could have been used to contact people or have its own arcade game, or something. Or Kerrigan could herself decide the upgrades for her race, and instead of Abathur taking her through a specified mission, the player could breed the zerg on some sort of gradient scale (like better armor vs better attack) and the player could try over and over to get the perfect combination they want.

  7. #7
    Eivind's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    I was one of those who didn't mind the story of WOL as much as others (although I believe SC1 and BW was better). I loved the gameplay, and have replayed the campaign tons of times because of it. Some of the missions were really difficult, although less so after repeated tries (they become much easier when you know which missions to do first and which upgrades to choose). I think Blizzard really let out their most creative elements there, to such a degree that I wondered whether they would actually be able to keep it up with HOTS. As it turned out, HOTS wasn't as creative, gameplay-wise (some of the gameplay mechanics were obviously lifted either from WOL or from WC3), but the missions were better tied to the story this time, which made for a more unified experience. I also think the decision to choose planets as opposed to missions was a good one.

    HOTS wasn't as difficult as WOL, but it was still fun. Kerrigan as a unit felt true to how powerful she in the lore, which obviously lowered the difficulty to some degree, and it really felt like you commanded the might of the swarm, both in terms of how large your army is and how adaptable the different units were. I've replayed the HOTS campaign a few times, and although I can steamroll it on brutal, I still enjoy it. My favorite mission is Fire in the Sky. I think that was probably the only mission to be as creative as WOL's best missions. The idea of centering a mission around a creep tumor is just excellent (wish I'd thought of that), and the mission also looks great, with the bone trench being a cool location, and the Gorgons being a mighty adversary (though more so visually than actually).

    I don't think LOTV will be as RPG-heavy as HOTS, which clearly included that element because of Kerrigan. Zeratul is powerful, true, but not that powerful, and if Blizzard sticks to their original plan, LOTS will be more politically minded, with the player having to choose between different factions in hope of unifying against Amon. Again, something that makes sense, lore-wise, as Protoss have an uncanny knack for in-fighting when their lives are at stake.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was one of those who didn't mind the story of WOL as much as others (although I believe SC1 and BW was better). I loved the gameplay, and have replayed the campaign tons of times because of it. Some of the missions were really difficult, although less so after repeated tries (they become much easier when you know which missions to do first and which upgrades to choose). I think Blizzard really let out their most creative elements there, to such a degree that I wondered whether they would actually be able to keep it up with HOTS. As it turned out, HOTS wasn't as creative, gameplay-wise (some of the gameplay mechanics were obviously lifted either from WOL or from WC3), but the missions were better tied to the story this time, which made for a more unified experience. I also think the decision to choose planets as opposed to missions was a good one.

    HOTS wasn't as difficult as WOL, but it was still fun. Kerrigan as a unit felt true to how powerful she in the lore, which obviously lowered the difficulty to some degree, and it really felt like you commanded the might of the swarm, both in terms of how large your army is and how adaptable the different units were. I've replayed the HOTS campaign a few times, and although I can steamroll it on brutal, I still enjoy it. My favorite mission is Fire in the Sky. I think that was probably the only mission to be as creative as WOL's best missions. The idea of centering a mission around a creep tumor is just excellent (wish I'd thought of that), and the mission also looks great, with the bone trench being a cool location, and the Gorgons being a mighty adversary (though more so visually than actually).

    I don't think LOTV will be as RPG-heavy as HOTS, which clearly included that element because of Kerrigan. Zeratul is powerful, true, but not that powerful, and if Blizzard sticks to their original plan, LOTS will be more politically minded, with the player having to choose between different factions in hope of unifying against Amon. Again, something that makes sense, lore-wise, as Protoss have an uncanny knack for in-fighting when their lives are at stake.

  8. #8

    Default Re: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eivind View Post
    and it really felt like you commanded the might of the swarm,
    See, that's what I never got in Heart of the Swarm. Zerg on fewer than three bases feels inherently ridiculous to me. StarCraft and Brood War had some amazingly awful resource placement, but especially in the Zerg campaigns, that meant you had to expand all over the place.
    Zeratul: I have journeyed through the darkness between the most distant stars. I have beheld the births of negative-suns and borne witness to the entropy of entire realities...
    Aldaris: Did not! That doesn't even make sense!
    Zeratul: Shut up, I totally did!

  9. #9

    Default Re: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eivind View Post
    HOTS wasn't as difficult as WOL, but it was still fun. Kerrigan as a unit felt true to how powerful she in the lore, which obviously lowered the difficulty to some degree, and it really felt like you commanded the might of the swarm, both in terms of how large your army is and how adaptable the different units were.
    I don't understand the "command the might of the Swarm" and the "how large your army is" bits because you barely needed a back-up army at all in most missions that featured Kerrigan, even on Brutal. It's quite telling that the most difficult mission in HotS was The Crucible because we had no control of Kerrigan for the majority of it.
    Yes, that's right! That is indeed ME on the right.


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  10. #10
    Eivind's Avatar Junior Member
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    Default Re: So I think by now everyone knows I hated the story, but what about gameplay?

    Well, I felt it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well, I felt it.

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