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Thread: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

  1. #1

    Default David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/8197652564

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayvie
    Just wanted to let you know that our design team is watching every major match carefully and will continue doing so.

    Some things we're noticing are:

    - The super aggressive play is turning out to be really fun to watch.

    - Nobody is close to figuring the game out yet.

    - A few players are really changing up their play and having completely different results than what's expected by the majority.

    - Some of the initial balance concerns do seem to be continuing in games whereas the more creative players aren't struggling as much against them.

    Some things we're thinking of going forward:

    - We'll try our best to not be too quick to make judgments on things that are allowing players to play a much more aggressive game. For example, yes Medivacs look strong but it's forcing even the opponents to play aggressive and the constant action throughout the game is looking to be really fun to watch.

    - We'll continue watching all the pro and community concerns, but keep in mind we'd really like the game to settle before we step in and make a move.
    What are your thoughts on this?

    Speedvacs have obviously dominated MLG Dallas, and as a result, the Bnet forums are kind of in an uproar. But, seeing D. Kim's response, what are your thoughts? Is it the right thing to wait for another tournament or 3 dominated by speedvacs before we see a slight nerf to it?

    My personal opinion: Speedvacs are currently no-risk-high-reward, and that's a really bad thing, especially when you have players like SKT1Rain and SKT1Parting falling against this, with Parting even stating openly "too imba" at the end of his tournament run... The ONLY way to stop that is to open 1 gate stargate Nexus > Oracle/Phoenix. Every other tech from Protoss dies to speedvacs on 1 or 2 base. Zerg also have to do something similar in that they have to just get "stimmed" mutas to kill medivacs. There is no other Zerg build that beats this, as demonstrated by Startale_Life.

    I think D. Kim, while being correct in being cautious, is incorrect in not acknowledging the above facts... Speedvacs do not just "look strong", they're a little overpowered.

    My suggestion:

    Ignite Afterburners now costs energy to use.

    This creates energy tension between boosting and healing, and enforces a high risk factor to a committed drop play, which is currently unpunishable... even with preemptive defenses, as shown by Parting...

  2. #2

    Default Re: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    I'd support the energy change, I watched almost every game of MLG this weekend and the Medevacs were absolutely insane. One game between (if I recall correctly) Sase and Bomber took 80 minutes, and the last half hour was Sase trying to catch Bomber's final Medevacs. It was ridiculous.

  3. #3

    Default Re: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    Aside from that 1 unit, HOTS is a perfect game. Widow Mines are alright, I think. Terrans need something like this in a mech army, and bio + mine strengthens it lategame. I think David Kim is gonna wait like 2-3 more tounies, especially the GSL next in the month to really determine what to do. You make a good point about how not just Sase, but Life, Killer and Parting were struggling to keep up with medivacs when they had no air units. As soon as you have Phoenixes or mutas though, speedvacs are not as threatening, because you can kill them en route or as they spawn.

    Let us see how this goes...

  4. #4

    Default Re: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    ... Aside from that 1 unit, HOTS is a perfect game...
    DAFUQ?!

    Its lookin' pretty damn good but seriously...
    - the Thor is still in a weird place
    - the Carrier is still innately broken
    - the Oracle has both Revelation & Envision... why?

    there's plenty of room for improvement and expansion if Blizzard weren't such pussies to fix their most basic mistakes and consolidate.

  5. #5

    Default Re: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    Quote Originally Posted by DemolitionSquid View Post
    DAFUQ?!

    Its lookin' pretty damn good but seriously...
    - the Thor is still in a weird place
    - the Carrier is still innately broken
    - the Oracle has both Revelation & Envision... why?

    there's plenty of room for improvement and expansion if Blizzard weren't such pussies to fix their most basic mistakes and consolidate.
    - The Thor is perfectly in a good place... It has the high impact cannons to melt armored air units like Carriers, Broodlords and Void Rays, and when combined with vikings + Raven PDD, Thors are actually pretty tough units that complement Mech Terran pretty well.

    - The Carrier is 1000x better than in WOL; fixing the leash AI for interceptors nailed the unit and made it perfect. Nothing broken about Carriers right now, unless you consider its 26.7 dps and 80 burst damage "broken". You can actually micro carriers now, which was impossible in WOL. Also, with Tempests existing at Fleet Beacon tech, Carriers are not so far away to get to all of a sudden, as Tempests are good stepping stone units to get to 4 stargate Carrier production easily.

    - Oracle has both because both function differently. Envision combined with Revelation would be a little too OP, as was shown in Beta. Revelation being about to scout army positioning and tech buildings, expansions, etc is more than enough for 1 Oracle spell. Envision being on the Oracle itself introduces a risk factor and it comes down to microing your oracle as you would an observer, except oracles are much faster and have a little more HP, but the trade-off is gas cost. But separating those 2 spells was actually a good call.

    Envision on MS Core was WAAAY too limiting when you had to fight Swarm hosts or DTs, especially when Zerg could just snipe the MS Core with corruptors while losing maybe 1-2, and in PvP, DTs could just out-run the MS Core, and causing the Envision to be wasted. In PvP and PvT, Envision on MS Core was waaay too soon, and it prevented cloaked unit play completely - to the point that NO ONE was using cloaked unit openings like cloaked banshees, widow mines, DTs, in beta.
    Moving the Envision spell to the Oracle and keeping it separate from Revelation was a good choice to ensure everything is fair for the other races, as the Oracle could be sniped, whereas combined with Revelation, Envision provided detection TOO easily to Protoss, and there was no way to get "undetected" once your burrowing or cloaked units were tagged by the spell, until the expiration at 1 min... That's too long for anyone who wants to apply any pressure in between with cloaked units.

  6. #6

    Default Re: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    Sase and Bomber took 80 minutes, and the last half hour was Sase trying to catch Bomber's final Medevacs.
    Yeah I heard about that. Wasn't it the longest game in MLG history or something? Is there a replay on Youtube somewhere? I'd like to see it.
    Aaand sold.


    Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
    The Forger's wake is bereft and fallow

    Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
    Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?

    The road's goal is the Origin of Being
    But be wary through what thickets it winds.

  7. #7

    Default Re: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    Quote Originally Posted by Visions of Khas View Post
    Yeah I heard about that. Wasn't it the longest game in MLG history or something? Is there a replay on Youtube somewhere? I'd like to see it.
    I am not sure where the exact link is, but this is where MLG uploads its VODs:

    http://www.youtube.com/feed/UCwOPGemlwjOfyWc6djufTeg

  8. #8

    Default Re: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    Totally agree with the, "low risk-high reward" element of the Medi speed thing - Sounds like the Blizz team is going to let things play out, but when it comes time for a change, I dont see the Medi acceleration making it out in one piece.
    "Wait.....no Gzhee-Gzhee.....?.....whu......Why no Ghzhee-Gzhee?!?!?!?!"


    RIP - Leslie Nielsen

  9. #9
    TheEconomist's Avatar Lord of Economics
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    Default Re: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    Carriers are pretty damn bad ass in Skytoss now. I've actually used them in 1v1. As opposed to WoL, where I only used them in team games. Thor are fine and the Oracle has those two spells separate for obvious reasons that shouldn't have to be explained.

    Again Squibb, actually PLAYING the game works wonders in allowing you to know what dafuq you are talking about.
    Last edited by TheEconomist; 03-18-2013 at 06:09 PM.



    Rest In Peace, Old Friend.

  10. #10

    Default Re: David Kim: HoTS thoughts (Mar 18-2013)

    Having two abilities that are basically the same thing on one unit is stupid. It would be like giving the Ghost both EMP and Feedback.

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