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Thread: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

  1. #1

    Default On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    So i have been keeping at least a lazy eye on the most verbal sides of the starcraft community lately and it seems like some people are making an attempt to stand up for some fundamental problems the game has. It may be great and become greater as a one on one competitive endeavour, but for casual gamers to take part of that gameplay experience themselves will always be very intimidating and potentially bring more anger, bitterness and frustration than it brings satisfaction.

    the contrast is teambased games, they may be arguably lacking in comparison, in terms of pure strategical depth, but even the team-dynamics alone, of games like lol/dota or CS make the gameplay experience even in the most competitive setting to be something casual players are more likely to keep coming back to, than to starcraft where its all on them, win or lose.

    Suggestions to address these problems that i have seen are mostly about brining esports into the client and making the client / Bnet environment more socially attractive overall as a platform.

    My idea:


    The idea i had this morning was for Blizzard to quite simll use the tools already in place or promised for the HotS client to actually integrate potentially casual gameplay with very specific tacical and stategic situations from current tournaments that everyone are able to see, hear cast, and relate to. Allow me to brake it down:

    So the GSL code S finals just went down. it was a great series. lets assume blizzard pics out one game and one situation as particularly amazing. the link to this VOD is featured in the BNET client,

    along with a blog post from a blizz rep. or maybe artosis (in this GSL case), explaning the game up to some predetermined critical sequence in the game.

    Along with the blogpost is the replay of the entire game and two badass buttons for "tactical challenge" one for each race/side. Pressing the tactical challenge will search for a match through the matchmaking system and put both players in the shoes of MVP or Life. giving them some 15-20 seconds to read the situation and set some hotkeys before the game starts......

    ,
    winning the challange (maybe 3-10 times something?) grants an achievment and a portrait - a custom portrait tied to the challange-feature with a picture of the player might be nice.

    the challenge would last a month or a couple of weeks, then a new game and situation would be highlighted - with new rewards available!

    Im quite proud of the idea and hope i can get enough people to notice it to highlight it.
    Last edited by Todie; 10-20-2012 at 07:41 AM.
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  2. #2

    Default Re: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    This is a very good idea: using playable replays as a kind of mini-game (just like SP chalenges, but much better) supported by Blizzard or the community (if the community has the tools to feed it).


    Unfortunately I don't have any idea to add to yours, or any objection to start a debate

    Except that maybe, some people won't like your idea. They should listen to it nonetheless. The best thing about it is making SC2 potentially so versatily it could be considered a game plataform. A lot of ideas like this should come up, and the community should have the means to make it happen.

  3. #3

    Default Re: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    Ok, good to see someone thinks its a good idea. You may be able to contribute by upvoting on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co..._esports_with/

    and commenting both there and on my TL blogpost: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/view...ic_id=376822#1
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  4. #4

    Default Re: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    Wait...

    You Blizzard to open up to the casual community... by implementing a feature that puts you in the shoes of the most hardcore of the hardcore? As a non-player of SC2 and a casual Esports follower, this doesn't exactly sound appealing.

  5. #5

    Default Re: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    A lot of people used to ladder, or ladder paresely on lets say a gold league level. You either press the find match button or you dont, and maybe you struggle to find more meaning to the wins than silly internet points that nobody but you really care about, and the losses as proof that you suck.

    by contrast, its appealing to see the great play displayed in big tournaments. A lot of players including myself keep on watching while playing less and less melee starcraft. I still like playing the game, it just always feels like such a hardcore endavour that it doesnt end up being that many games played that frequently. (This is coming from a quite mature gamer who has been able to rationalize the maeanings of wins and losses quite well.)

    The fact taht we are playing less, in turn, is over time making the sc2 games we watch less and less relatable and exciting.

    my proposition is to link the two worlds. It would be a cool new thing to play for other than playing the ladder. I think the game needs this.
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  6. #6

    Default Re: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    If you want casuals back, bring back BGH. As much as people may hate on it, it's what a majority of SC1 players played, and it's the type of map casuals would enjoy rather than the competitive scene of ladder.

    The most highly played custom maps are simple competitive games like Desert Strike and Nexus Wars. Casuals aren't interested in stressful 1v1 style competitive games, they want something quick and fun that a BGH type map can offer. You just build big armies and throw them at your opponent.

    BGH was what kept SC1 alive. DOTA is what kept War3 alive. Ladder isn't meant for casuals, and I don't think you will be able to tailor it so that it will appeal to them. Anything on a ranking system is already too hardcore.

  7. #7

    Default Re: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    you and i are referring to partially different groups when we say "the casuals". Yes. the people you are talking about enjoy BGH etc more than anything related to a competitive 1v1 situation.

    im talking about the whole lot of people who actually have enjoyed 1v1 laddering to some extent in the past. These are the people who are more likely to be interested in following esports. I feel quite certain there are more people who have played more than one game of starcraft ladder than there are who have given watching starcraft esports a real shot.

    You have a point though. I think Blizzard are hoping their Dota map, blizzArena or whatever it is they're calling it, will be a ood draw on that crowd. My suggestion can tie into that though, allowing for special skins and stuff for the blizzDota to be unlocked with completions fo the tacical challange.
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  8. #8
    Sarov's Avatar The Enforcer
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    Default Re: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    There are really two main types of casuals: those that aren't competitive and those that don't have the time to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Todie View Post
    im talking about the whole lot of people who actually have enjoyed 1v1 laddering to some extent in the past.
    You think Blizzard would have learned from World of Warcraft.

    For some reason, they removed skirmishes and replaced them with war games in Cataclysm. War games required you to challenge another group, which had to be on the same realm as you. I don't think Blizzard understood the appeal of skirmishes, otherwise they would know why people hate war games.

    Casuals loved skirmishes because they could play arena without worrying about the pressure. Competitive players could play with these friends without worrying about their rating. Other players used skirmishes for practice, whether that was with current teams, potential teammates, or just to test classes/comps/talents/glyphs. For all intents and purposes, skirmishes were just unranked arena matches.

    It's the same with SCII.

    Anxiety from being ranked kept most of the people on my list from playing. Some people only played custom maps but then they became bored and left. I used to do ladder but the anxiety eventually got in the way. It would have been better if they had a separate, unranked system.

    I went from a list of more than twenty, to under ten and now it's empty. Doesn't give me much of a reason to log in anymore. Except even if this is fixed, they already moved on to other games. And that's not counting the other problems I hear about. :/

  9. #9

    Default Re: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    SOme of them will come back for HotS, and some new people will come onboard with HotS. its also resonably easy to meet people bby just being nice on ladder..

    You are right, we've needed unranked matchmaking for a long time. HotS has promised to bring it, but im thinking tats not really enough.
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  10. #10

    Default Re: On the hot subject of #saveHotS: About integrating the compeitive & the casual !

    "im talking about the whole lot of people who actually have enjoyed 1v1 laddering to some extent in the past."

    This is a very small niche, and what players are into that kind of play already have it available. The game is designed for the 1v1 laddering system. Also, these aren't typically casual players. They may play 1v1 casually, but they are a tiny minority of players compared to those who don't 1v1 and would rather play something more relaxing or fun.

    If anything, more people gravitate towards 2v 3v or 4v games for casual laddering.

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