Warhound Hypothesis: No Purpose in TvZ

[The_Blade]

My main problem with the Warhound is that it is expensive and uninteresting, as others have pointed out. As well, protoss now have 3 casters, zerg has 3 casters, and terrans still duel with their two unchanged casters. You can clearly see how Terrans look uninteresting and lacking if you see the latest multiplayer unit video. The Widow Mine is great, but the rest of the new stuff for Terran isn't that great.

Dustin Browder mentioned they had to cut zerg stuff out of the demo because of several reasons. While they seem to know what to do with Protoss and Zerg, Blizzard seems to have reached a new block regarding new Terran units. It's like the Thor/Maraunder/Siege Tank issue all over again.

[Cotcan]

The main reason they have problems adding to Terran is that Terran already has counters to most everything. For example the MMM ball, the marines take out the air, marauders tank and do the damage to armored, while the medivacs heal both of them. Do to this, they are having a hard time finding roles for new Terran units that don't take one that is already being used.

For example, the Warhound used to be the mini thor. Being cheaper, attacking air quite well, and being somewhat of a cannon, but because they kept the mothership, and they only wanted 1 unit type to only have 1 out at a time, the Thor would be kicked out. So they turned the Warhound into an anti-mech unit. A new role that hasn't been used, and does have the possibility of fixing the mech problem vs toss that many people have already pointed out. It could also be too powerful and flip the tables as it's already been mentioned.

There's nothing wrong with having a unit you don't use against certain races. Remember the reaper? Once everyone found out that it was easily countered, and Blizzard blocked it's early harassment use, it was useless. Because it really was only useful early on. Now instead of trashing it in the expansion, they are trying to make it somewhat useful. Although in true it really does need to be faster, or that heal won't help much.

[RamiZ]

The main reason they have problems adding to Terran is that Terran already has counters to most everything. For example the MMM ball, the marines take out the air, marauders tank and do the damage to armored, while the medivacs heal both of them. Do to this, they are having a hard time finding roles for new Terran units that don't take one that is already being used.

It doesn't really counters everything, but it has potential to beat everything if played well(micro together with drops). My problem with Terrans overall is that they have the most cost-effective units in the game. Not saying it is a problem on higher levels though, but Hellions cost 100 minerals and they completely shut down everything that is light, in this expansion, they will have battle mode, which just means that they will now be even more powerful... Marines cost 50 Minerals, and you are basically forced to make some AoE units like Banelings/Infestors/Colossi/High Templars, or you will probably lose just to mass Marines. They are just too powerful for 50 minerals, again, not saying that they don't have counters, but even with units that should counter them, don't really counter them if you have godlike micro(which is still really difficult to pull out, but still).

And in this expansion, we get Widow Mines(That I actually like quite a lot, even though I play Zerg) that costs 75/25, while do 200 damage, and lower damage in AoE... That means that Terran are suddenly immune to Muta harass... I mean really? It is ok to nerf it, or to find a valid counter to them, but not to shut it down completely...
So, we have Widow mines that can be produced with Reactor as add-on, meaning two at a time, and everytime I come into Terran base to harass, I will trade at least one Muta for Widow Mine, meaning 100/100 for 75/25... I just dislike that design.

[solidsamurai]

TvT fights could probably do to be a bit faster (unless I'm still thinking in terms of BW, heh), so a way of knocking out vehicles seems warranted.

[MulletBen]

Apparently we were all wrong; the war hound is so broken that it is actually good in TvZ, in spite of being designed for a different matchup.

[solidsamurai]

You're probably right.

But it's not like blizz's design strengths are gameplay anymore. Entertainment industry evolves quickly (even if the consumer doesn't), and the company has simply changed too much in the past 10 years.

If you observe everything new by blizzard, their main strengths are art, art, and more art. Even if they don't do very good in-game 3d rendering (diablo 3 looks horrible on that side of things; the 2d art that was incorporated was top notch, but the 3d felt out of place, however small it actually was).

If another thing like blizzard north came up, then they could dominate again - but I dunno if the activision blizz deal will allow that. If it doesn't, then the vision is permanently gone and blizz should become a game producer, not a game designer (this is the future of all big corporations and how they survive; liquidity and investment - they can never hope to remain in the work bench).

Yeah the above is really random, sorry. Will stick in another thread.

[Skyze]

In pro games, it seems rushing for a quick warhound push is an alternate method of stopping the zerg from over-macroing; as warhounds can easily take out queens fast.

I think it will be a good unit in every matchup, I plan on trying using it for drops, as its fast and responsive almost like a stalker; Sure it may not do as much damage as 4 hellions dropped in the back, but you gotta remember 4 hellions can't take out a queen easily (and may not even get a single drone if your opponent is quick with his pull) - Warhounds will get 1-2 drones instantly, and pick off queens fast.

It seems they aren't great for the matchup, obviously since no mechanical zerg units, but they aren't completely terrible. I'd take it over thors at their cost/effectiveness lol

[solidsamurai]

Warhounds will get 1-2 drones instantly, and pick off queens fast.

So the zerg could counter this with nydus canal or some kind of nydus worm upgrade?

Warhound would nonetheless need some hard counters to make it okay.

Also, hellions aren't as fun as vultures in BW (they just aren't good at hit and run, even though they're fast - there's some sort of attack delay). Blizz needs to reintroduce something like vultures. Or, introduce load outs into an RTS game and then separate ladder matches by allowed load outs (ie. the vulture instead of hellion load out).

[Kimera757]

Now that the warhound has been canceled, does anyone think it'll show up in the campaign? It's zerg-only, unless Blizzard squeezes in some Raynor or protoss missions somehow.

[DemolitionSquid]

Now that the Warhound has been canceled, does anyone think it'll show up in the campaign? It's Zerg-only, unless Blizzard squeezes in some Raynor or Protoss missions somehow.

Warhound isn't cancelled. Its been taken back to the drawing board after a week of mass beta. Big difference. Blizzard needs to add a new unit for Terran. You can bet your ass the Warhound will be back, but in a different form.