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Thread: SCII Flashpoint novel

  1. #11

    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    HotS does not take place 2 years after WoL. BW ends in 2501, and WoL starts in late 2505 and ends in 2506, when HotS starts.

    Kudos to Arkceangel for the Terran avatar and sig!

  2. #12

    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    You're going by the old timeline. In the past, BW ended in 2501 and one assumed WoL took place in 2505 as per the "four years after BW" line. However, the current timeline compressed GW and BW to end in the same year, not to mention that 2504 has been used explicitly in WoL and the like. We know when HotS takes place because it was stated it took place six years after BW, giving the 2506 figure via relative dating.

    Moral of the story, relative dates can change, absolute ones can't.

  3. #13

    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex06 View Post
    HotS does not take place 2 years after WoL. BW ends in 2501, and WoL starts in late 2505 and ends in 2506, when HotS starts.
    What the guy above me said.

  4. #14

    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    It doesn't make sense to back up what a SC Wiki editor says with a SC Wiki article

    This may be a good place to ask to Hawki and Kimera:

    1) where do you guys got this 2506 year from? Gradius talks about this too, but where is it shown?

    2) this "first great war" and "second great war", this is fan nomenclature right? Were you wiki editors who coined it?

  5. #15

    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    Quote Originally Posted by TcheQuevara View Post
    It doesn't make sense to back up what a SC Wiki editor says with a SC Wiki article

    This may be a good place to ask to Hawki and Kimera:

    1) where do you guys got this 2506 year from? Gradius talks about this too, but where is it shown?

    2) this "first great war" and "second great war", this is fan nomenclature right? Were you wiki editors who coined it?
    People who think Wikis are unreliable are stupid. There, I said it.

    Articles on Wikis have references. That kinda makes them reputable. Let's see, does that 2506 article have a reference? Oh, it does. Fancy that.

    Oh look, Great War has a reference too. I wonder if Second Great War has a reference supporting its name too. Oh, it doesn't. It's based on conjecture. But hey, there's precedent. But wait, Brian Kindregan calls it a Great War. Well there you go.

    Now, what have you learned about Wikis today?
    Last edited by Sheliek; 06-20-2012 at 01:55 PM.

  6. #16

    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    It is argueable if people who don't trust wikis are stupid (I have a tale to tell you about this, if you have the time), but people who can't comprehend what they read are stupid by default.

    I, for one, never said the SC wiki was unreliable.

    And what is the source in the 2506 article? Wow, it is Gradius' article, that I already mentioned! And that I wasn't questioning btw, just asking for more information about.

    I don't even know how to react when people are unnecessarily stupid and aggressive.

    EDIT: Oho, ok, this just got funny. "Second Great War" isn't really sourced. And the Wiki itself has commentary explaining it:

    The Second Great War is a term used by this wiki to cover the events of the games Wings of Liberty and what is known of the events of Heart of the Swarm. The conflict present in these games has yet to be given an official name, but has been referred to as a "great war" by Brian T. Kindregan.[25] A precedent of sorts exists in Blizzard's Warcraft series, where the conflicts of its RTS games were numerically designated (First War, Second War, etc.)
    You know what the problem with sources is Muspelli? If you don't really check'em, they could be cheating you, if the author had bad intentions. Or you could cheat yourself own your own, if you have reading disabilities.
    Last edited by TcheQuevara; 06-20-2012 at 03:40 PM.

  7. #17

    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    SC:L staff traveled to Blizzard's HQ in Anaheim on May of 2011. They interviewed blizzard's staff and had the chance to play HotS. That's the source of Gradius' article and some of the statements in the wiki. As far as exact years, we have all assumed that the wiki dates are right because they follow a pattern set by Blizzard (2 years after WoL, 6 years after Brood War, etc).

    While I'd say wiki's may be untrustworthy, I trust the StarCraft wiki with all my heart. I do because most of the articles are right in the spot.

    Kimera is a wiki editor, and he knows quite a lot on lore. He can edit an article in order to prove a point, but I don't think he will ever do so. I sometimes fall into the idea that he might be wrong (as it is normal in a debate). When this happens, I search my archives of books and Blizzard's statements in search for the answer. Then, I post my results and questions.

    Coining terms helps us discuss events and ideas while being on the same page. "The events of SC" and "The events of SC:BW" are terms that have been used before, but they may be confusing for some people who believe SC and SC:BW are the same thing. I don't see why we should question terms that help discussion, unless there is an official name for said events.

    Sources and references may be flawed, and we should look out for them. I do believe most of the references for the wiki are right, though. Those which are vague, especially those who account on interviews before the game, will clear up once we see the full trilogy of SC2.
    Last edited by The_Blade; 06-20-2012 at 04:16 PM.

  8. #18

    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    I will say outright that no wiki is perfect. Not even wikipedia. Every wiki requires a level of trust, and my level of trust varies in accordance with the quality. Wikipedia probably has my highest level. I would also highly trust the SC wiki by virtue of being an admin. I won't deny that there's probably some errornous info there somewhere, but I would like to think that it's quite accurate. Sources, and all that.

    Concerning the 2506 date, yes, it's been mentioned once...as opposed to no other figure being given. To be honest, HotS can only take place in 2505 or 2506 anyway as the former is relative (WoL ends late 2504, can't see HotS squeezing in in the last few months) and HotS at least has a reference to a point of time. If a source contradicts that, it will probably take precedence.

    Concerning war names, "Great War" (for SC1) and "Brood War" (for...BW) are official. "Second Great War," as mentioned, isn't, hence the line "the title of this article is based on conjecture" at the start and the notes section at the end. There are a few times when a conjectural title has to be used to describe a certain topic, and "Second Great War" seemed like the most logical term in that it bears similarity to a pre-existing canon title, matches the Warcraft name system for its RTS games and Kindgragen indeed called it a "great war." Now the official title could be "Great War of the Koprulu Sector" for all I know and if it's revealed as such, the wiki will of course change to match that. For some things, I'd hold off making an article if there isn't an official name for the subject but too much happened in SC2 (WoL and what we know of HotS) to not create some kind of hub page IMO.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    Multiple sites have reported the 2506 figure. IIRC it might be from the HoTS FAQ document, or just mentioned at the press conference.

  10. #20

    Default Re: SCII Flashpoint novel

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    While I'd say wiki's may be untrustworthy, I trust the StarCraft wiki with all my heart. I do because most of the articles are right in the spot.
    Me too. IIRC, Blizzard itself said the wiki is 99% right. Novel writers use it as a source.

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post
    Kimera is a wiki editor, and he knows quite a lot on lore. He can edit an article in order to prove a point, but I don't think he will ever do so.
    o.O I never said he'd do such thing. But it makes no sense me saying "hey, Blade is right. Look this Blade article confirming what he says".

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Blade View Post

    Coining terms helps us discuss events and ideas while being on the same page.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawki View Post
    I will say outright that no wiki is perfect. Not even wikipedia. Every wiki requires a level of trust, and my level of trust varies in accordance with the quality. Wikipedia probably has my highest level.
    Don't. I trust SC Wiki more than Wikipedia. Got sick once because I trusted Wikipedia. I'll tell you the story later.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gradius View Post
    Multiple sites have reported the 2506 figure. IIRC it might be from the HoTS FAQ document, or just mentioned at the press conference.
    Long time no see Grad How you doing?

    Stebo from SC Armory claims the same year. I believe you, but sometimes I wonder, what if you're mistaken, and Stebo is basing what he says on you? Because the Wiki's only source is your article. I'm just saying it would be very funny if you were wrong. I'm not even questioning if you're right or not. I believe you are.

    So now I hope it is clear I'm not attacking the Wiki at all and that I appreciate Kimera's and Hawki's and other editors' work pretty much.

    So, going back to topic. My first question is where you got the year (2506) from. You guys kind of answered it but I'm kind of still scratching my head... My theory is that Gradius is the only source. I'd like to see other sources (not more people sourcing Gradius), not because I mistrust him, but just because.

    My second question is almost answered too: the "Second Great War" is fan nomenclature (no prob!) while "Great war" is not. But here comes another question, is the only source validating "Great War" as official Brian Kindregan? Because I think Kindregan himself may have start using the term because of the Starcraft Wikia. Think with me, if novel writers use it, this means Blizzard's own "archives" aren't as trustful as the Wiki, so the Wiki maybe became an "almost official" source even for game writers. And Blizzard is surely desperate for trustworthy sources, given how much they already screwed up for forgetting details about lore.

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