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Thread: what would you like to see Kerrigan's arc in heart of the swarm

  1. #41
    The_Blade's Avatar SC:L Contributor
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    Default Re: what would you like to see Kerrigan's arc in heart of the swarm

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    The reasons for her wanting to kill Mengsk are patently obvious, however, I do hope they meaningfully address the reason for "why now in HotS?" when she has had plenty of opportunity (and power mind you) beforehand. Somehow, uninfested Kerrigan waking up and saying "Because I now want to" just doesn't seem to sit right.

    I'm thinking (or rather hoping) that her actual motivation to kill Mengsk "now" in HotS does not actually arise until partway into HotS. Whatever form that will take is anyone's guess though I'm hoping it's not another Macguffin, uninspired plot device or retcon (as that leaked ending tends to suggest).
    I really want to see Blizzard handle this appropriately.

    I believe we will only need small contributions to the existing information about Kerrigan's conflict with Mengsk in order to know why he must die now, during HotS. The Sarah persona of Kerrigan was so innocent she couldn't question Mengsk true colors. Mengsk leaving her to die was not unexpected; deep inside, Raynor knew this (more like she would die) before letting her ass go. As the Queen of Blades persona, Kerrigan thought that Sarah was weak. She liked being the Queen of Blades and Mengsk was the reason she became one of the most powerful beings in the Kropulu sector. Although she liked who she was, as the QoB persona, she still hated Mengsk for his actions and death was too merciful. Being the "Emperor of nothing" was the best torture for Mengsk.

    Had the Queen of Blades stayed in action, she could have stopped the Dominion from growing. This is why we need to know why she retreated back to Char. Was it the prophesy? or was it her swelled confidence? Those are the most probable reasons, but there might be others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Much as this being an interesting route to take for any other character, I don't think this would be appropriate for Kerrigan's character. There is an argument that WoL is sexist toward women since the recent portrayal of Kerrigan in WoL gives a strong vibe of a defenceless and aimless woman who needs to be saved by men thereby reinforcing a negative stereotype. Your question of whether this "girl can survive the guilt of killing more people" tends to feed off that I think and it has the potential to cheapen her.
    I should have been specific about who the girl was. Sarah or what remains of her is this girl. The girl Raynor loves and the girl who can become human once again. It is true that this persona of Kerrigan shows the stereotype of "women and their blue prince", but it is only this fragment of her personality that reflects it. If the leaked ending is still the current ending of HotS, Sarah will ultimately die out, because Kerrigan may no longer live with humans. She will now have to look out for the Swarm for the rest of her life. This will be her torture. Isolated with the Zerg she will start creating human-like characters like her Queens, but she will never feel the touch of a real human spirit again. I like this ending because it breaks with the cliche of saving the princess in danger.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalyon View Post
    Regardless of the above, you do have to also remember what she was, from the beginning, a highly trained assassin with numerous kills even before being the Queen of Blades. Assassins are generally not shrinking violets and have rather pragmatic views about life, otherwise they'd find another area of expertise or be rooted out in some way or another.

    She has also been in a similar position (guilt over mass killing) before in SC1 where she was partly responsible for planting psi-emitters. Sure she had her own protestations and that you can blame it all on Mengsk, but there's a difference between being accountable and responsible. I think Kerrigan would be the type of person to own that responsibility and harden up from such lesson like this. Having her back-flip back to a naive girl would be a disservice and a retread, especially in light that her time as the Queen of Blades doesn't count (character growth-wise) because it is a disparate personality.
    She had a pragmatic view of life. This view ended when she looked at Mengsk in the eye and knew what kind of man he was. The only psi-emitter she placed on her own was used against the confederates armies, when she still trusted Mengsk. The use of Psi-emitters on Tarsonis was performed by other escuadrons deployed by Mengsk, not Kerrigan. At this point her pragmatic point of view was shattered. In HotS she no longer has a pragmatic view for killing, but she must kill for survival. Not only her survival, though, she also has to fight for the survival of the universe itself. Perhaps all the lives that have been expended will motivate her to continue fighting, but at which cost? That's my question.

    And of course I don't want Blizzard to use the old "Blue Prince" cliche.

    Edit: As quoted from DarthYam, Blizzard has to justify her acts as the QoB if they want to use the "Blue Prince" cliche. So I also find it highly unlikely that Sarah "lives".
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    QOB kerrigan took sadistic glee in murdering her foes while laughing maniacally. Those kinds of crimes will haunt her for years.
    Last edited by The_Blade; 03-12-2012 at 01:54 PM.

  2. #42
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: what would you like to see Kerrigan's arc in heart of the swarm

    I never found Kerrigan interesting as one of the good guys. And I could care less about her revenge arc against Mengsk and whether she finds "redemption". I just want HoTS to attempt to salvage the plot and give us a view of galactic-scale events.

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    I think her time as QOB will have an even more massive effect. With the Psi emitters she hadn't been wholly willing, and didn't take joy. QOB kerrigan took sadistic glee in murdering her foes while laughing maniacally. Those kinds of crimes will haunt her for years.
    Don't see why Kerrigan should feel guilty now that they've decided that the QoB and Sarah Kerrigan are completely different personalities. It's not even the same as regretting an action due to being drunk. It was literally not her fault. If anything we're supposed to blame the dark voice now.

    All the bad qualities that have ever existed in Zerg characters are now transferred to the dark voice. SC is devolving into black & white morality, instead of grey. It's an insult to Blizzard's previous work. Now I know that some people feel that the story being told now is more important, but that's like saying you wouldn't mind if SC3 takes a giant dump on WoL. It ruins any attempts at world-building, which is the point of having a story in an RTS game.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: what would you like to see Kerrigan's arc in heart of the swarm

    NO offense, but I don't fully agree with your interpretation. It's entirely possible that the QOB was Kerrigan with all morality stripped. I saw the "don't give up" scene as Kerrigan's mental blocks being weakened enough for the better side of her to break through the conditioning. I felt that in BW the Darker side was in control, meaning that she could conceievably make a single choice.

    I also feel that the DV merely redirected the natural fury to serve his own ends. Even in Warcraft it's made clear that the legion exploited darkness that was already within the orcs to make them pawns (Grom tells thrall that they willingly accepted the offer, and the fact that they were tribal shows that they weren't wholly peaceful, but somewhat warlike.) I mentioned this another topic


    "If i recall correctly blizzard said that the main way the overmind was conscripted was that the dark voice forced him to focus his expansionist desires onto the protoss. My guess is that the original plan was to consume others till it reached purity of essence, then merge with the protoss like the xel naga planned. That makes the Overmind amoral at best while also allowing a proper reconciliation." In essence, the Overmind was always amoral and violent, he just wasn't as heartlessly malevolent as the DV and was actively trying to better his race even if by human morality it's abhorrent

    I like Kerrigan going through a redemption arc for at least two reasons

    1.) Blizzard has done the fallen hero routine many times, and almost all of them end up dying and going to hell (Arthas dies at Tirion's hands, the dark wanderer is consumed by diablo after being made into a host, Illidan became loony, Kaelthas....). Having a hero climb out of the darkness and achieve redemption would be new and could be genuinely compelling and engaging.

    2.) Kerrigan's life has been tragedy after tragedy ever since she was 8 years old, so she deserves to finally find some solace for her past. Even if she's not happy she deserves to be able to lay her past to rest.

    How is Starcraft HOTS going to be black and white? Kerrigan is blatantly an anti hero (she can drain resources to blow up worlds, displays ferocities, and seems determined to do anything to stop Mengsk. Warfield flat out asks her "how many innocents have you killed? How many more have to die? to which Kerrigan freely admits as many as it takes to kill Mengsk.) She's not as monstrous, and from screenshots of her showing guilt, as well as her description of her crimes as terrible, she's not the monster she once was. However the beast sill lingers and Kerrigan will have to get her hands dirty by necessity." I think Kerrigan's main personal battle will be grappling her darker nature with the more human side.
    Last edited by DarthYam; 03-12-2012 at 05:00 PM.

  4. #44
    Gradius's Avatar SC:L Addict
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    Default Re: what would you like to see Kerrigan's arc in heart of the swarm

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthYam View Post
    NO offense, but I don't fully agree with your interpretation. It's entirely possible that the QOB was Kerrigan with all morality stripped. I saw the "don't give up" scene as Kerrigan's mental blocks being weakened enough for the better side of her to break through the conditioning. I felt that in BW the Darker side was in control, meaning that she could conceievably make a single choice.

    I also feel that the DV merely redirected the natural fury to serve his own ends. Even in Warcraft it's made clear that the legion exploited darkness that was already within the orcs to make them pawns (Grom tells thrall that they willingly accepted the offer, and the fact that they were tribal shows that they weren't wholly peaceful, but somewhat warlike.) I mentioned this another topic
    That sounds exactly like what I said. You seem to be making a distinction between the DV making Kerrigan evil and the DV bringing out Kerrigan's evil. To me, there's no difference. The human Kerrigan would have never committed those atrocities, and it's basically a different character. Who knows what you or me could be capable of if someone brought out our bad sides. The difference is we have self control, and Sarah Kerrigan did not, therefore it isn't her fault.

    I like Kerrigan going through a redemption arc for at least two reasons

    1.) Blizzard has done the fallen hero routine many times, and almost all of them end up dying and going to hell (Arthas dies at Tirion's hands, the dark wanderer is consumed by diablo after being made into a host, Illidan became loony, Kaelthas....). Having a hero climb out of the darkness and achieve redemption would be new and could be genuinely compelling and engaging.

    2.) Kerrigan's life has been tragedy after tragedy ever since she was 8 years old, so she deserves to finally find some solace for her past. Even if she's not happy she deserves to be able to lay her past to rest.
    Ok, those are good reasons. I just think it should be a side-plot, even if it's the main thing they're focusing on characterization-wise.

    How is Starcraft HOTS going to be black and white? Kerrigan is blatantly an anti hero (she can drain resources to blow up worlds, displays ferocities, and seems determined to do anything to stop Mengsk. Warfield flat out asks her "how many innocents have you killed? How many more have to die? to which Kerrigan freely admits as many as it takes to kill Mengsk.) She's not as monstrous, and from screenshots of her showing guilt, as well as her description of her crimes as terrible, she's not the monster she once was. However the beast sill lingers and Kerrigan will have to get her hands dirty by necessity." I think Kerrigan's main personal battle will be grappling her darker nature with the more human side.
    I didn't say HoTS is going to be black & white, but with the zerg characters' "evil" decisions not really being their decisions, it definitely takes away from the grey morality that SC used to have.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: what would you like to see Kerrigan's arc in heart of the swarm

    I was referring to the zerg. The over mind would have had no qualms with forcibly assimilating others. The end goal would have been different but the means would stay the same. I made a comparison to the puppet master from Ghos in the Shell since he has as somewhat similar goal (merge with his counterpart) and a similar mo (use violence to get into position or eliminate threats but ultimately uses diplomacy to get his counterpart to consent to the merger).

    And it is easy to feel guilt if your own feelings are exploited. In the dresden files a character makes horrible choices in a state of despair that end up psychologically damaging his apprentice (well that and the fact that said apprentice was caught in the blast of the single most powerful blast of dark magic in 1000 years while being a); later it's revealed that a fallen angel had said a few words at his most vulnerable to push him over. While the angel was ultimately responsible, the only reason he had an opening to exploit was because the hero had a tendency to blame himself when things went bad; in essence the angel just had to step in, do a little thing and harry would do the rest himself. In essence his own habits created the opening. Kerrigan is similar in that while she didn't fully make the choice, she allowed the seeds to be there. Her anger, resentment, and desire to not be controlled were what allowed her to become the Queen of blades. all that was needed was a tiny push in the right areas. As such Kerrigan cold feel "If I had learned to better deal with my issues, than maybe I wouldn't have become a monster."

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