Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

  1. #1

    Default Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    i got a bit bored today, yet too tired to game much, so i wrote up a post on Infestors in ZvP

    I use Infestors enough to realize they have insane potential! undeniably!

    then i go watch high level VOD's and see even TOP zergs forgoing the use of infestors completely!

    the typical example is vs P's who go for a composition of GW+colossi (blink,charge and HT's later) ... vs this we typicaly see mass roach or roach hydra with corruptors, often into broodlords if it gets that far.

    how do Infestors fit in there you might ask, here's how:

    going corrupter upon scouting/anticipating colossi is great, but even the best can fail at calibrating the exact numbers of corrupters needed in a situation; too many and your ground forces are too weak to match the GW units, too few and they'll be picked off before really hurting the colossi count.. in some situations its nearly impossible to keep gathering precise enough intel to know how many corrutpers to keep.

    .. So its rather obvious that corrs are most reliable as a direct response to colossus tech; seeing it you kinda "know" the opponent will go for getting at least 2-3 cols asap... After this though, IMO it makes much sense to transition to another means of tackling colossi; infestors with NP isnt as strong of a direct counter but the infestor as a whole s infinitely more flexible than the corrupter, and having some infestors around is always awesome, not to mention it synnergises ridiculously well with broodlords in the face of blink-stalkers! (fungal denies blink)

    it would take an essay to make justice to all the coolness that can come out of this unit; a counter argument might be that HT's wtih feedback shuts it down; ill admit good HT use will make it more difficult to make your infestors cost effective, but to me its quite obvious that they'd still be worth the money at the hands of a great player.

    .. i feel like I can do "great things" with them, and im only a humble 70 APM amateur who easily slips in macro while attempting to pull the truly epic stunts.

    .. i put it on reddit and it got some buzz going. (SCL was actually down at the time..)

    what are y'alls thoguhts on this? why dont we see more infestors ZvP in top level play?

    http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/co...underused_zvp/
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    Well I agree with everything you're saying. We could go on for a while, pointing out everything that's great about infestors and the adaptability that comes out of their three spells... but why don't we see that much of them? I have no idea, but here are some random thoughts:
    -niche is filled by other stuff? (corruptors, banelings, hydralisks, roaches)
    -APM sinks?
    -too fragile?
    -not cost efficient enough (energy regen rate, spell radius/range/power etc...)

    I haven't been watching enough progames these days to provide any actual answers though

  3. #3

    Default Re: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    hm... i've always felt that the infestor is extremely powerful in most matchups through fungal growth and infested terrans alone, not to mention burrowed movement...

    what i want to see vs toss players are counter-storms or feedbacks vs own templars with parasite (probably never cost-effective but has a coolness-factor involved...

    otherwise, corrupters have always been powerful vs air when caught off guard, especially with hydra support (if zerg players ever go hydra anymore) and tbh, i'm pretty surprised infestors don't get used all the time as they now deny blink stalkers..

  4. #4

    Default Re: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    All I am going to say is taken from watching high level PvZ matches, mostly because I dont really have high level zerg players to play against anyway. I have seen some infestors in ZvP, but not until late late in the game. The simple fact being they are too weak against a good protoss player who has adequate control. They use the infestors to supplement their broodlords and held slow down blinking stalkers. They do not have alot, but 2 or 3 laying around just for stopping blink. NP is not all together viable simply because of force field. The way most high end protoss are playing vs zerg involve getting a lot of sentries and keeping that count relatively high (around 8-10) throughout the game to cut zerg armies in half. Even if you fungal growth protoss units, unless you can get through their shields, their shields will regenerate. So unless you can take out enough with the units you can attack with, the protoss will just fall back a bit, macro up some more, and regen all those shields that the fungal took off, which will definitely regen faster than your infestors energy does.

    The "burrow and try the NP" snipe will not work all that well either because of most protoss users pushing out with observers (mainly for roaches that are burrowed) with their main army anyway. Not to mention, high end protoss players do not give you big (if any) chance to flank. But lets say you do get off the NP onto the colossi, we can even say you caught them all. The protoss player can just forcefield either your main army or flanking army, blink to kill the infestors and then use the colossi to kill your army while it is cut in half while you have to go around or wait for the force fields to end.

    When the top players expand vs zerg (their 3rd base and further) they start throwing down 3-4 or more cannons at every expansion. So in the off chance you try to burrow into their base and throw some infested terrans at them, the will be able to see the infestors and take them down. Or, if you stay back from the cannons and lob IT's that way, the protoss user can bring a few units and an observer at you and kill all those IT's AND your infestors as well mean you did very little damage and are put further behind.

    Keep in mind this is just from watching top players play. I have been watching alot of pro games and everything I mentioned here is something that I have seen progamers either do, or know to be well capable of doing. That being said, the people you are playing are probably not progamers and may or may not be capable of doing all of these things. So, if it is working for you by all means, keep trying at it. However, be warned that the further you get up in ladder, the less chance it will have of working because of the aforementioned reasons.
    I realize that I change my signature often. All I can say to that is: SO??? HAI FIVE!! (*・∀・)/♡\(・∀・*)

    If you like anyone's post, be sure to give them additional rep.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    It's a gas issue, basically. The gas you're spending on getting Infestors and upgrading them could instead be spent on more Hydras and Corruptors, who benefit from the upgrades you likely already got for your Roaches and Mutalisks. Its an efficiency thing. Yeah, you need the Infestation Pit to get Hive, but from there it gives you lvl 3 upgrades and Greater Spire to use them more effectively than just getting Infestors.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    But if you use infestor roach, you can easily snipe Colossi since they cannot retreat with fungals on them. And, thus using hydras from the back to kill stalkers. The initial tanking will be done by the roaches, while the hydras come in a little bit after the roaches go in and snipe the colossi. But this would definitely be a midgame tactic.

    After that, getting Ultras or Broodlords would be more desirable, so if infestors are being used, the roaches that die could be replaced by a few corruptors and more roaches, so that the next time that Protoss attacks with more immortal-heavy forces, you can use infestors to stall while getting broodlords then just crush the Protoss ball with mass roach/fungal with Broodlords as support.

    The gas is not an issue usually because in midgame, Zerg is most of the time running on 3 bases. If going infestor-heavy, you just need like 3-4 drones on minerals while having 6 geysers mining.

    I'm no zerg player, but the way zerg times expansions makes it possible to get enough gas for infestor play in midgame Colossus/Stalker pushes. The infestors become a stalling mechanism, just like Mutas in ZvT, in order to tech to Hive and get Broodlords or Ultras depedning on the Protoss' response.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    Quote Originally Posted by protoswarrior View Post
    But if you use infestor roach, you can easily snipe Colossi since they cannot retreat with fungals on them. And, thus using hydras from the back to kill stalkers. The initial tanking will be done by the roaches, while the hydras come in a little bit after the roaches go in and snipe the colossi. But this would definitely be a midgame tactic.
    [...].
    Excellent point!

    the remaining problem uis vs defensive colossi positioning and chokepoints / FF's / raw GW-unit numbers constrict the space.

    .. i think, if youre light on corruptors, its exponentially more important to not get caught forced to fight in a bad tight location.
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    Heh talking about FF/Collossi/infestors makes me think it would be pretty awesome to NP a collo just long enough to break up a forcefield choke. That would be pretty badass, although not something we can expect to see a lot of^^

  9. #9

    Default Re: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    I think the neural parasite spell is flawed, in that while units won't auto-target the NP'd unit, they will often target the infestor, which usually has much less health than whatever unit you're trying to NP.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Why so few Infestors in top ZvP ?

    Quote Originally Posted by hammy View Post
    heh talking about ff/collossi/infestors makes me think it would be pretty awesome to np a collo just long enough to break up a forcefield choke. That would be pretty badass, although not something we can expect to see a lot of^^
    so badass idea!
    I am an enthusiast of good strategy games, sc2Esports and rollplay, although i dont really play anything atm.
    I work an internship at a government agency this fall, and have a good time at it.
    I'm being more social, active and honest lately. in all forums.

    Hi.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •