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Noise
06-18-2009, 11:48 PM
A message you all the people participating in the beta.

We all know why we all want to be in the beta so bad: so we can play Starcraft 2! Some of us just want to play it, others want to get a head start on the competition to be a better player, and some want to take footage and show the rest of us. This is natural. But it is not the purpose of the beta. With the beta key you are given great power, and with great power comes great responsibility.

Your primary mission is to tell Blizzard about bugs and imbalances and suggest improvements to the game. Before anything else. I honestly believe that a large amount of the success and quality of SC2 will depend on the quality of the beta testers feedback. So do it right. Equally as important as telling Blizzard about bugs and imbalances is NOT telling them about things that aren't imbalances. Seems obvious? Lots of people I know are willing to immediately label a strategy or unit imbalance (in any RTS) if they are beaten by it. Someone Colossus rushed your mineral line? Your Thor unexpectedly died? It's not necessarily imbalanced. A game as complex as this needs a lot of thought before you can call anything imbalanced.

By being a beta tester you are, in a sense, becoming part of the development team. So do your part in making this the best game of all time.

PsiWarp
06-18-2009, 11:53 PM
You are chosen by the Blizzard Gods, destined to participate in the most momentous occasion in Real Time Strategy history, make this worth every second of your summer to create the ultimate instrument of war.

Cry Havoc and Let Loose the Dogs of War!


-Psi

DemolitionSquid
06-19-2009, 12:15 AM
Fact: 95% of everyone with a beta key does not deserve one, and will be useless.

Noise
06-19-2009, 12:23 AM
Fact: 95% of everyone with a beta key does not deserve one, and will be useless.

I'm just trying to wake some people up so it's more like 90%

Nicol Bolas
06-19-2009, 12:29 AM
Equally as important as telling Blizzard about bugs and imbalances is NOT telling them about things that aren't imbalances.

Nonsense. Our job is to make Blizzard aware of what we see. If we see something that appears to be an imbalance, we should tell them.

It is on Blizzard's judgment to decide which of these are valid imbalances and which are unskilled whiners getting beaten by someone who's just better. This is judgment that they will have to exercise when the game goes live, just as they have for the life span of SC1.


95% of everyone with a beta key does not deserve one, and will be useless.

Hey, some of us paid good money to go to BlizzCon to get our Beta keys. We earned the right to the beta.

DemolitionSquid
06-19-2009, 12:43 AM
Hey, some of us paid good money to go to BlizzCon to get our Beta keys. We earned the right to the beta.

You didn't earn shit, you bought it. Like Paris Hilton didn't earn fame, her daddy bought it for her. Congratulations on getting to play an unbalanced bug-ridden game and likely be one of the 95% to provide no concrete insight into how to improve it.

I'm not saying I'd do much better, but you thinking you deserve to play more than anyone else is laughable.

n00bonicPlague
06-19-2009, 01:08 AM
I pride myself in being a bug hunter.

I will make insane UMS maps just so I can drive the game to its limits.

Nicol Bolas
06-19-2009, 01:22 AM
You didn't earn shit, you bought it.

And what, I didn't earn the money for by BlizzCon tickets?


Congratulations on getting to play an unbalanced bug-ridden game and likely be one of the 95% to provide no concrete insight into how to improve it.

I don't buy your logic there either. If Blizzard is at all competent, they will be collecting detailed statistics automatically about each game that is played. So regardless of our verbal feedback, merely playing the game will give them all kinds of valuable information.

Gifted
06-19-2009, 01:27 AM
Just to let you know, I personally WILL have a beta key. I have a history in program Quality Assurance and have been a beta tester for many games, of a few I've actually received emails from the company thanking me for my contributions.

As well, I will also do what I can to help the community fill their wants of knowledge by helping with question/request threads and whatever else. One of the things I'd like to help contribute is a new build order archive which I greatly miss and feel that those without a beta key will GREATLY benefit from in terms of theorycraft and preparation.

I may even consider doing a weekly objective of sorts within the forums, who knows, we'll see when it's released.

Noise
06-19-2009, 01:31 AM
they will be collecting detailed statistics automatically about each game that is played.

I HIGHLY doubt that. At most they might automatically save all replays for them to analyse later.

Nicol Bolas
06-19-2009, 01:52 AM
I HIGHLY doubt that.

Why not? It's far, far more effective than listening to the complaints of thousands of people. The most accurate part of focus testing games is watching what people do while playing, not what they say afterwards.

If you want to know how often a unit gets used, how often certain units are used when a particular side wins, etc, there's no better way to find out than simply by having the game transmit that information. They already have to transmit win/loss statistics to Battle.Net. Adding a few more statistics to the packet is totally reasonable.

Gifted
06-19-2009, 02:26 AM
Actually it's not outlanding to consider they will be storing your own replays to a server. I think I read somewhere that it was a potential ideal for them. It would also be an interesting aspect to consider in terms of using a Warden like program to fight botters and hacks.

Noise
06-19-2009, 02:32 AM
Why not? It's far, far more effective than listening to the complaints of thousands of people. The most accurate part of focus testing games is watching what people do while playing, not what they say afterwards.

If you want to know how often a unit gets used, how often certain units are used when a particular side wins, etc, there's no better way to find out than simply by having the game transmit that information. They already have to transmit win/loss statistics to Battle.Net. Adding a few more statistics to the packet is totally reasonable.

I don't deny it's a great idea, I just don't think they would have bothered building that in. I can't prove nothin.

Gifted
06-19-2009, 03:02 AM
For their intent to get this rolling as an eSport I could see that built in somehow. Honestly all you have to do is grab the information from a replay and parse it. Use that information in graphs. They do this all the time to world of warcraft, I'm sure they've learned from that easily.

Gifted
06-19-2009, 04:31 AM
Just as a note for you all: http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7634#post7634

MaybeNextTime
06-19-2009, 05:02 AM
Nonsense. Our job is to make Blizzard aware of what we see. If we see something that appears to be an imbalance, we should tell them.

It is on Blizzard's judgment to decide which of these are valid imbalances and which are unskilled whiners getting beaten by someone who's just better. This is judgment that they will have to exercise when the game goes live, just as they have for the life span of SC1.



Hey, some of us paid good money to go to BlizzCon to get our Beta keys. We earned the right to the beta.

They are not as qualified to gauge whether something is imbalanced as top players (talking about the balance on the higher level of play).

unentschieden
06-19-2009, 05:32 AM
They´d be fine if they just saved the endgame statistics (they anounced C&Cgraphs). That alone would tell them If Zealots got 3 Times as many Kills in the first 7 Minutes as Marines.
For Battle.net they do have to calculate that stuff (to prevent cheats) so unless there are only idiots it would be foolish to not even look at the numbers.

Norfindel
06-19-2009, 07:29 AM
It's very possible that Blizzard would be directly collecting lots of statistics from games played during beta. So, i don't think they need too much subjetive opinions on that matter. They're more likely to ask you if something is fun or not, or if it looks good, etc.
Now, Blizzard doesn't need to ask the same questions to everyone. Top players are more likely to be asked about game balance than normal people that got a key by assisting Blizzcon, or something like that.

Blazur
06-19-2009, 08:20 AM
I HIGHLY doubt that. At most they might automatically save all replays for them to analyse later.

Believe it. I guarantee Blizzard collects advanced metrics on their games which has been instrumental for balancing and feedback. There's no other way they could have honed SC1 into the perfect diamond it is today. They likely know how many times each unit is built, how much damage they're responsible for in the long run, and plenty of other tangible numbers related to gameplay.

Nicol is right...by just playing the game you're surely helping Blizzard out. If people opt to cheese with particular units Blizzard will know about it, regardless of how vocal you are in the community.

Its naive to think otherwise.

Santos
06-21-2009, 01:48 PM
I remember reading an interview with a Valve employee a little while ago, and a lot of it was about the massive amount of statistics they automatically collect every day from servers running their games all over the world.

Blizzard would do a similar thing. There's no reason for them not to. And when you're talking about a game franchise like Starcraft, it would be really lazy and even irresponsible of them not to have some sort of automatic data collection system set up.

SaharaDrac
06-21-2009, 02:20 PM
I've been in every Blizzard beta. They keep inviting me back...I must be doing something right. I have thrown my "beta hat" in with SCLegacy, and I intend to share all my screenshots, thoughts, videos, and commentaries with this site's community. (By the way, is there a thread for people like me to organize this stuff??) As long as bitter, angry children like DemolitionSquid are kept to a minimum, that is.

DemolitionSquid
06-21-2009, 02:21 PM
I've been in every Blizzard beta. They keep inviting me back...I must be doing something right. I have thrown my "beta hat" in with SCLegacy, and I intend to share all my screenshots, thoughts, videos, and commentaries with this site's community. (By the way, is there a thread for people like me to organize this stuff??) As long as bitter, angry children like DemolitionSquid are kept to a minimum, that is.

Hey, good for you getting into every beta.

Too bad it hasn't made you any better at gauging what is and is not a good mechanic.

SaharaDrac
06-21-2009, 02:27 PM
Hey, good for you getting into every beta.

Too bad it hasn't made you any better at gauging what is and is not a good mechanic.

Your supreme intelligence clearly shines through when you continuously argue the validity of game mechanics based on your postulations derived from watching one pre-beta battle report of an old, outdated alpha build. I hate to break it to you big guy, but you might just NOT be the smartest poster on these forums anymore.

DemolitionSquid
06-21-2009, 02:36 PM
Your supreme intelligence clearly shines through when you continuously argue the validity of game mechanics based on your postulations derived from watching one pre-beta battle report of an old, outdated alpha build. I hate to break it to you big guy, but you might just NOT be the smartest poster on these forums anymore.

My basis for believing Proton Charge is an atrocious mechanic is based on quantifiable data (that does not require videos) and inferences based on my understanding of mass effect syndrome and how professional starcraft works. As far as I can recall I have never used anything shown in a video as an argument against Proton Charge aside from stating the obvious that in BR3 Lee lost many Queens trying to use them to attack and Obelisks are more specialized and easier to use. Get your facts straight or provide concrete evidence if you wish to discredit me.

Warsaw
06-21-2009, 03:30 PM
Your supreme intelligence clearly shines through when you continuously argue the validity of game mechanics based on your postulations derived from watching one pre-beta battle report of an old, outdated alpha build. I hate to break it to you big guy, but you might just NOT be the smartest poster on these forums anymore.'

Dont let him get to you. Hes just a squid.

Also it is a good reminded to make sure beta testers are actually testing but as long as they have an easy way of reporting bugs its fine. I'm not sure how they have it in SC2 but if they had a place inside SC2 beta program after you played a match you just click "submit a bug" im sure a lot more people would do it then if they had to sign up on forums to do it. but im not sure how sc2 beta has it.

Nottoway
06-21-2009, 03:38 PM
Wow, some people in this thread are angry they didn't get beta keys. Jeez...lol

EDIT: On WC3 servers, Blizzard was easily able to derive numerous statistical facts (Hero usage, unit production, map rotation, etc) as well as the most major one... Race by Race win %. They have been doing it for a long time in WC3 and I'm 100% sure that they will use it in SC2 to determine where the imbalances lie between race v race match-ups. As Nicol said, there will be little opinionated suggestions, more than most gameplay changes will be from Blizzard's own acknowledgment and analyzation of raw data retrieved from Bnet.

SlickR
06-21-2009, 03:52 PM
I agree. Everyone with a beta key should make at least a small contribution.

Zalamander
06-21-2009, 03:57 PM
I will, hmmmm record some movies for sure and put up on my fast site high res streaming and even higher res downloadable. :O

Too bad I prolly not have host space for too much so will have to switch to newever movies over days. :)

Nottoway
06-21-2009, 04:13 PM
I will, hmmmm record some movies for sure and put up on my fast site high res streaming and even higher res downloadable. :O

Too bad I prolly not have host space for too much so will have to switch to newever movies over days. :)

Filefront is another good video hosting website. Their download speed is incredible, I usually max out at around 600-700 kbps. I can download Halo 3 montages in the 200 mb range in a matter of minutes :)

http://www.filefront.com/

Zalamander
06-21-2009, 04:33 PM
I know, I know hosted a few movies there the upload speed is horrible to that site tho.

Gifted
06-21-2009, 05:12 PM
I've been in every Blizzard beta. They keep inviting me back...I must be doing something right. I have thrown my "beta hat" in with SCLegacy, and I intend to share all my screenshots, thoughts, videos, and commentaries with this site's community. (By the way, is there a thread for people like me to organize this stuff??) As long as bitter, angry children like DemolitionSquid are kept to a minimum, that is.
I agree. Everyone with a beta key should make at least a small contribution.http://sclegacy.com/forums/group.php?groupid=11

Join the Beta Lounge and post some requests, I'll be picking some for the first week. If you have a Beta Key, you can also state that you want to help out and take requests weekly as well. Up to you though, it's a Good Samaritan effort.

Lucius_Raecius
06-21-2009, 06:32 PM
I think we are forgetting something.

Blizzard needs feedback from non pro players as well.

Those of us, like me, who never played Starcraft competatively. There needs to be those who will just report on how they found the game as a relative newcomer, rather than someone who watches the replays and understands the strategies.

Warsaw
06-21-2009, 07:08 PM
I think we are forgetting something.

Blizzard needs feedback from non pro players as well.

Those of us, like me, who never played Starcraft competatively. There needs to be those who will just report on how they found the game as a relative newcomer, rather than someone who watches the replays and understands the strategies.

True that.

Noise
06-21-2009, 10:38 PM
I think we are forgetting something.

Blizzard needs feedback from non pro players as well.

Those of us, like me, who never played Starcraft competatively. There needs to be those who will just report on how they found the game as a relative newcomer, rather than someone who watches the replays and understands the strategies.

I don't mean to be offensive, but why? The beta is for balancing and finding bugs, surely the more competitive a player you are, the better you are at helping in the beta?

Zalamander
06-22-2009, 01:44 AM
I don't mean to be offensive, but why? The beta is for balancing and finding bugs, surely the more competitive a player you are, the better you are at helping in the beta?

I would also need to point out that the more copetative player you are more likely the less a developer you are and dont really know much about programming and game design.

While a person with a game development education like me can look at the game both as a player and a developer and understand and report bugs and solutions to bugs much better.

Sadly im not really working as that but I am working for a magazine and get to be in beta the "press" way to make a preview of the game. So I'll take that oppertunity and do the best of it.

Hav0x
06-22-2009, 01:59 AM
Blizzard will be collecting all kinds of statistics about each game played but that is not enough for them to balance the game. They will not be able to know what tactics and strategies are being used and abused with those statistics alone, you MUST report any potential imbalances to Blizzard.

SaharaDrac
06-22-2009, 02:30 AM
I get really wordy with my feedback to Blizz sometimes...

Triceron
06-22-2009, 02:36 AM
Reported or not, Blizzard will fully know of many of the imbalances in their games through just by keeping track of stats and replays. This isn't their first RTS, they know what they're doing.

Personally, I wouldn't take these 'responsibilities' seriously, because I'm not being paid to do a job. I will enter a beta to see the game and have fun, and if I'm not having fun then I'll let it be known what I like and dislike. Blizzard has their own internal QA teams to handle the bugs and imbalances.

We're the fans and with the beta, we should be getting what we want. The beta is the time when fans have the most influence over the direction of the game. This is when we get to play and see for ourselves what we like and dislike about what they have so far. The good thing about Blizzard is that they actually listen.

Norfindel
06-22-2009, 08:13 AM
I don't mean to be offensive, but why? The beta is for balancing and finding bugs, surely the more competitive a player you are, the better you are at helping in the beta?
I'm sure that Blizzard is interested on making the game playable by low skill players, also. The win ratio of one race over another can be different for low-skill players than for high skill players. Something can be hard enough to do for a low-skill player as to lose the game.

spychi
06-22-2009, 08:24 AM
During DoW2 beta I reported bugs only, no gameplay issues cause I'm not good in macro/micro theorycrafting in Warhammer universe.
When I'll play the SC2 beta I will report the bugs and the unbalanced gameplay issues, however I'm still not good in macro ideas or improvments.
I have FRAPS ready, I asked my ISP to give me more upload speed when beta comes out so that I will provide as many videos as I can and I can assure you guys that I will spend weeks on playing SC2 beta, day after day, cause hell I waited years for this game!

I agree with DS on one thing, that alot of Beta keys will be given to people who will not provide the feedback needed to balance the game.
Some will go on Ebay, some will go to kids who will only like to play it, but most of SC 1 players who will participate in Beta test will help Blizzard to make a sequel of the best RTS game.

Gifted
06-22-2009, 10:41 AM
In terms of testing this game, it is not just about "fixing bugs and balance game" in beta. It's about testing fun and enjoyment. It's about people who will enjoy toying around with b.net 2.0. It will be about people who want to create communities within B.net's potential for Social Networking (It's been confirmed on a few websites that facebook and myspace references were not uncommon in a few old interviews when it was in concept) If you are going to beta test b.net 2.0 and sc2, you want to have a large a pool of testers as possible in terms of variety. Remember, ANYONE could opt in for ANY game as long as they purchased ANY Blizzard product. They didn't sign up for SC2, they signed up for a BETA OPPORTUNITY.

In terms of game development, data from many different pools of testers is very required. There is a valuable pool of people who will provide direct information to them via the forums and reports. However, the people who are casual and wanting to try it out are just as important as something as simple as "usage of game" statistics can tell how gripping the game is and help directions.

Nicol Bolas
06-22-2009, 12:33 PM
I don't mean to be offensive, but why? The beta is for balancing and finding bugs, surely the more competitive a player you are, the better you are at helping in the beta?

Um, no. The game needs to be balanced at a variety of skill levels. If it's only balanced for the competitive player, then the only people who will play it are a small group of the hardcore. This is not what Blizzard wants.


While a person with a game development education like me can look at the game both as a player and a developer and understand and report bugs and solutions to bugs much better.

Oh please. Blizzard doesn't want your solutions; they're not going to care what you think the right way to fix a problem is. They're not even going to take your word for it that there is a particular problem. They will do their own testing to verify whether that problem exists before considering solutions. And those solutions will be ones that they create themselves.