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Perfecttear
06-14-2009, 04:12 PM
I don't know if this is alredy known, but i haven't find nothing about it so i am asking it.

Currently the Collosus can be attacked by both ground and air weapons, so i am wondering what happens when a Thor is attacking a collosus,
does he attack by both the Javelin Missile Launchers and the Arm Cannons at the same time, or only one off them, the strongest one off them, or perhaps javelin missiles from range 10 to 7 and then onward with Arm cannons?

Another question that i am wondering is, if you had your Thors target a Colossus, would the Thors be contempt with sitting back at 10 range attacking the Colossus with its air attacks, or would the Thor run forward while attacking with its air attack until it would come in range of the Colossus to use it's arm cannons . :confused:

..

DemolitionSquid
06-14-2009, 04:30 PM
The Thor would attack from range 10 with the missiles. Once the Colossus enters range 6, it would use the stronger attack, which would be the arm cannons.

Here's my math:

Thor
Missiles - 5x8
Arm Cannon - 30x2 + 4 vs. armored

Colossus
Armored, +1 armor base

Missiles: 5(-1 for armor, so 4) x 8 = 32
Arm Cannons:
A) 30(-1 for armor, +4 for armored, so 33) x 2 = 66
OR
B) 30(-1 for armor, so 29) x 2 = 58, +4 for armored = 62

I think B is correct.

Wankey
06-14-2009, 04:30 PM
I'd assume that Blizzard will optimize this area and let it attack at various ranges with its highest damage weapons. For instance if the AA missiles are of range 9 with dmg 40, and the cannons of are range 6 lets say with a damage of 60... I don't see why the Thor doesn't switch to cannons once it is in range of the colossus.

I think this question has been answered somewhere in the QA series

Operatoring
06-14-2009, 04:42 PM
This is a pretty good question. I would imagine it would work something like the Hydralisk's Melee attack works. D-Squid's answer seems to make sense.

SCdude
06-14-2009, 04:55 PM
i think Karune said that they've changed the collossus so that it can only be hit as a ground unit. But i can be wrong.

SpiderBrigade
06-14-2009, 04:56 PM
I don't have the quote but it's been said that units will preferentially choose the more damaging of their attacks against the Colossus, in cases where they have both ground and air attacks.

Operatoring
06-14-2009, 05:07 PM
i think Karune said that they've changed the collossus so that it can only be hit as a ground unit. But i can be wrong.
I hope this is true. The Colossus seemed pretty useless for awhile there. The fact that it could be hit by both ground and air attacks only made it more vulnerable. I want the Collosus to strike fear into the hearts of enemies.

Kimera757
06-14-2009, 05:43 PM
I would imagine it would work something like the Hydralisk's Melee attack works.

Apples and oranges.

The only difference between a hydralisk ranged and melee attack is the visuals. Nothing else.

Pandonetho
06-14-2009, 06:06 PM
Apples and oranges.

The only difference between a hydralisk ranged and melee attack is the visuals. Nothing else.

The concept is still the same.

The Thor will use its more powerful attack once it is in range, just like how the Hydralisk will switch to a melee visual once it's in range.

DemolitionSquid
06-14-2009, 06:25 PM
The concept is still the same.

The Thor will use its more powerful attack once it is in range, just like how the Hydralisk will switch to a melee visual once it's in range.

While "technically" your comparison is correct, a better and more accurate one would be "The Thor will use its more powerful attack once it is in range, just like how the Hydralisk will switch to its more powerful GTA."

Nicol Bolas
06-14-2009, 06:50 PM
if you had your Thors target a Colossus, would the Thors be contempt with sitting back at 10 range attacking the Colossus with its air attacks, or would the Thor run forward while attacking with its air attack until it would come in range of the Colossus to use it's arm cannons

That's a pretty good question. My guess is that it would stop moving the moment any of its attacks came into range. That's what would happen if they used the simplest programming logic for it.


i think Karune said that they've changed the collossus so that it can only be hit as a ground unit.

Karune has said no such thing.

Zigurd
06-14-2009, 07:19 PM
In terms of cost effectiveness, which one is the best unit ?
They have different roles, but which would you say is the most useful one ?

warrior6
06-14-2009, 07:39 PM
While "technically" your comparison is correct, a better and more accurate one would be "The Thor will use its more powerful attack once it is in range, just like how the Hydralisk will switch to its more powerful GTA."

umm i think its somewhat like comparing the reaver to a broodwar siege tank. with the thor being the siege tank.

Runei
06-14-2009, 07:49 PM
thats really cool, hydras switch to melee visual when in range? i didnt know that... anyone have a vid of this I can check out?

DemolitionSquid
06-14-2009, 08:08 PM
thats really cool, hydras switch to melee visual when in range? i didnt know that... anyone have a vid of this I can check out?

BR2. Hydra's melee auto turrets.

Kimera757
06-14-2009, 08:58 PM
In terms of cost effectiveness, which one is the best unit ?
They have different roles, but which would you say is the most useful one ?

"They have different roles" therefor you can't compare their cost-effectiveness. Colossi are better at killing SCVs and worse at killing buildings than Thors, but you need to do both to win (as an example).

Norfindel
06-14-2009, 09:03 PM
In terms of cost effectiveness, which one is the best unit ?
They have different roles, but which would you say is the most useful one ?
Taking into account that the Colossus can kill Marines in one hit now, i think that the Colossus is probably more cost-effective. The Thor seems to be mainly a damage soaker, but if you see the stats from sc2armory, they have only 50 more life than a Colossus, that have a splash attack that can potentially destroy a lot of weak massed ground units at once.
The Thor attack looks powerfull, but you must take into account that at the unit cost, it will be outnumbered quite easily. I'm not conviced on it's anti-air role, either. It would be cumbersome to counter air units with a few Thors, but would be usefull when attacking, to keep light enemy air units away.

Kimera757
06-14-2009, 09:37 PM
The Thor seems to be mainly a damage soaker, but if you see the stats from sc2armory, they have only 50 more life than a Colossus.
The old colossus could have double the hit points (with Mechanical Rebirth) and the new one has some kind of plasma beam attack that we know little to nothing about. Either way, we shouldn't examine the Thor without taking its special abilities into account.

MattII
06-14-2009, 11:09 PM
Also, are we taking the Colossus before or after its +3 range upgrade?

Nicol Bolas
06-15-2009, 12:15 AM
Which is more cost-effective? The question itself is just inappropriate in this case. They do different things.

For all of the Colossus's "killing Marines in one shot" attack, it's still not as good as a Thor against single targets. The Thor's refire rate is about 3x greater than the Colossus. The Colossus is best against clusters of enemies; against a single target, it wastes too much damage to be effective. Whereas the Thor is terrible against clusters of enemies; it is best against a smaller number of things with lots of Hp (since they do 30x2 damage. A big waste to kill a Zergling).

Also, the Thor can shoot flying things, which the Colossus can't. Similarly, the Colossus can cliff-climb, which the Thor can't.

The two units best signify the ideals of their respective races. The Colossus is an artist's unit. You position it well, and you get reasonable damage. It's mobile and long-ranged.

The Thor is a rock. It's hard to kill, and has lots of big guns on it. It can shoot everything, ground and air. It's overkill in armored form.

Noise
06-15-2009, 12:57 AM
I am hoping that they leave the Colossus targetable as an air unit and have it's other stats outweigh the disadvantage of being attacked by anything. It's interesting.

Zigurd
06-15-2009, 01:22 AM
It is possible to compare cost-effectiveness of units with different roles.

Protoss scout <<<< High Templar

See what I did there ?