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View Full Version : Suggestion: Dynamic Roofing of Buildings



Gifted
05-21-2009, 10:06 AM
I'm sure it's too late in the cycle to pull this off... but I was thinking about having some buildings have dynamic roofing that fades as you go into and out of it. I know a lot of UMS maps in Starcraft 'fake' buildings by teleporting you to a separate portion of the map for buildings... It'd be interesting to have a building that has the ceiling fade to transparent as you enter the building and exit it.

Combine this with the new physics of the game and you can have some enjoyable situations of building to building play or emulating some good qualities for RPGs such as shops.

Not needed for the game, but it's use could be a very solid tool for the development community.

DemolitionSquid
05-21-2009, 10:12 AM
No building model is big enough to just "fade out" its roof and contain a viable interior space for units to move in. This seems a bit ridiculous and will not work.

DoomFish
05-21-2009, 11:52 AM
Actually that should already be possible, if you really want to do it.
Just create the terrain of which the building consists and then add doodads which are platings floating in the height of the roof and make a roof that way.
Then, if a unit walks in just make all the doodads transparent by trigger.
Should even be already possible in Warcraft 3 (didn't look it up, though).
The Starcraft 2 Editor will be able to to it.

Rizhall
05-21-2009, 12:07 PM
The real question is, will you be able to put units on top of building's "roofs"?

DoomFish
05-21-2009, 12:16 PM
haha, that's even easier...
if the building is a unit I don't know how you'd want it to look,
but if it consist of terrain and doodads you could just make the unit 'fly' when it enters some kind of stairs. Then you'd place some flying units blockers at the roof's borders. Done.
There's even a better way, using some kind of pathing or something. It's already in Warcraft, but I never paid much attention to that. But I think that's the way you build bridges and elevators.

The_Blade
05-21-2009, 12:20 PM
I wouldnt like a building

probably a sub-tileset of instalation that can be applied to any tileset. this way map makers can fix the amount of space they can dedicate to their "buildings"

Whanhee
05-21-2009, 05:50 PM
If two units are in the same place but one a floor above the other, can you still see the floor? It would also be neat to attack the floor and fall through, of have vehicles fall through because they're too heavy.

Crazy_Jonny
05-21-2009, 09:25 PM
Considering everything in StarCraft is so out of proportion, plus it would overlap with garrison buildings (bunkers), this feature seems really useless and tedious to implement.

As far as the modding community ... ehhh, mods can give marines squirt guns for all I care.

Pandonetho
05-21-2009, 09:47 PM
Some people are forgetting the fact that you can scale every unit in Starcraft. Make a barracks as big as 1/4 the map if you want.

MattII
05-21-2009, 09:51 PM
This is the reason we have installation terrain, because it's impossible to put the two maps together in such a way.

Eligor
05-21-2009, 09:52 PM
I think there IS a cavern roof "doodad" in the WarCraft III Editor, however, you can never see it ingame as you cannot zoom out that far. So the question is really more about whether we'll be able to modify such fundamental features as zoom through SCUMEdit or not.

Gifted
05-21-2009, 10:16 PM
The original intent would be to create a terrain "installation" now after thinking about it, I wouldn't want to "break apart" a barracks for example. It's nice to see ways to do it overall. I just felt that the "teleport to another section of the map" could be improved upon as a whole.

Thanks for the feedback, the ones intended to help shows it's possible.

MattII
05-21-2009, 11:29 PM
How about having an opaque 'lift-door' doodad then, so you can at least create a semi-realistic method of moving around? I also wouldn't mind seeing rock tunnels and an ability to have the various terrains at all levels (rather than just blue upstairs and grey down below).

Triceron
05-22-2009, 01:05 PM
One of the main problems is the size relation between units and buildings. We've had entire installation maps that are supposed to be taking place within units like Battlecruisers and Science Vessels. Buildings would be huge in relation. Just look at how big the size relationship of buildings are in Warcraft compared to WoW; a barracks is literally a 3-story building.


What I would rather see is Blizzard adding an Interior Template that is made accessable for map users. It would have built-in triggers that will let you teleport units to and out of. These would work like giant doodads, just stamp em wherever there is space on your map. You would be able to create your own interiors without the hassle of creating complex triggers each time. The template could include some default settings like a premade Blizzard Barracks interior, or a premade Command Center interior. This way, the idea of building interiors would be more consistent from map to map, while this also gives the creator ample room to expand or customize them to their liking.

emikochan
05-22-2009, 03:15 PM
New editor can combine multiple terrains, doodads etc, and scale anything, I doubt this would be a huge problem (considering the tenacity of the modding community :))

I'd be more interested in a "realistic scale" UMS map, since it would probably play out like a supreme commander battle...

MattII
05-22-2009, 03:23 PM
What I would rather see is Blizzard adding an Interior Template that is made accessable for map users. It would have built-in triggers that will let you teleport units to and out of. These would work like giant doodads, just stamp em wherever there is space on your map. You would be able to create your own interiors without the hassle of creating complex triggers each time. The template could include some default settings like a premade Blizzard Barracks interior, or a premade Command Center interior. This way, the idea of building interiors would be more consistent from map to map, while this also gives the creator ample room to expand or customize them to their liking.

Too complex, pre-made installation maps would work just as well, and would be easier to deal with.

Triceron
05-22-2009, 07:05 PM
Well that would be a map on its own. That's assuming you'd actually want to have a map dedicated to just the inside of a barracks.

I wonder if they could have a way to link multiple maps together into one map so every time you enter a building, you actually enter a new pre-loaded map. They had this in War3, but I'm thinking more for Multi as well.

MattII
05-22-2009, 07:19 PM
That's assuming you'd actually want to have a map dedicated to just the inside of a barracks.

I certainly wouldn't mind that, give us a map for the inside of each building.


I wonder if they could have a way to link multiple maps together into one map so every time you enter a building, you actually enter a new pre-loaded map. They had this in War3, but I'm thinking more for Multi as well.

The scales are way too different, a CC is 3*3 on a map, so it would make no sense to go inside it and have the map fill half the play area.

mr. peasant
05-22-2009, 08:32 PM
The scales are way too different, a CC is 3*3 on a map, so it would make no sense to go inside it and have the map fill half the play area.

Except, things aren't to scale in the game. Plus, we had full-sized maps for missions taking place in the Psi Disruptor and inside a Science Vessel. Clearly, neither of those are the size of an entire map when placed in other tilesets.

MattII
05-22-2009, 08:44 PM
Except, things aren't to scale in the game.

That's the whole point, if they were in scale there wouldn't be a problem.


Plus, we had full-sized maps for missions taking place in the Psi Disruptor and inside a Science Vessel. Clearly, neither of those are the size of an entire map when placed in other tilesets.

Of course not, which rather graphically makes my point, you can't have internal and external maps in the same game, the scale differences are simply too vast.

mr. peasant
05-22-2009, 08:58 PM
That's the whole point, if they were in scale there wouldn't be a problem.

Of course not, which rather graphically makes my point, you can't have internal and external maps in the same game, the scale differences are simply too vast.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Triceron simply suggest opening a new map as the units 'enter' a specific building? Wouldn't this solve the 'small exterior, large interior' (a.k.a. TARDIS) issue? It certainly worked for WC3.

MattII
05-22-2009, 09:04 PM
No it wouldn't, because you'd still be playing at two different scales (one for those units outside, one for those inside), unless you're talking about doing something like what happened with the Protoss Vanilla campaign, but that was in any case two different games, not one.

Triceron
05-23-2009, 01:13 AM
Even if such is not possible, I hope they add some open source elements to the editor so people can make mods for it, like how WoW can have custom interface addons and ability macros that completely change the way the game is played. Having user-made tools could further open up the map editor for experienced and casual hobbyists alike.

unentschieden
05-23-2009, 03:59 AM
Even if such is not possible, I hope they add some open source elements to the editor so people can make mods for it, like how WoW can have custom interface addons and ability macros that completely change the way the game is played. Having user-made tools could further open up the map editor for experienced and casual hobbyists alike.

WC3 already has it and Iīve even seen Sc:BW Maps like that (the authors had to be very creative though).

In terms of user made tools... A editor is a very complex tool already and I think most people that would be able to write one would end up just writing mapsections outside of the scope of Blizzards Editor as "raw code".

Despite that though Isnīt there a 2nd editor for SC:BW?

Gifted
05-23-2009, 04:58 PM
Original Poster here!

I know this post has created a new debate of sorts based on the internal/external building mechanics. My suggestion was to create fake buildings with terrain and truely dealt with having accessable terrain under existing terrain. Some suggestions had the right mentality.. such as putting caves in the side of a cliff.

I saw a lot of buildings on the screen shots and thought that you could create buildings by use of terrain, for example, the SIMS building editor, put walls and levels on something and make it a building. When I suggested the idea, it wasn't intended to use the pre-existing buildings such as a command center.

Just clarifying the original intent, I still believe the original idea with TERRAIN BUILDINGS would be a fantastic idea.