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Gradius
05-21-2009, 09:49 AM
Fomos (http://fomos.kr/), one of the largest StarCraft e-sports websites from Korea, has recently acquired information concerning StarCraft II's observer mode. Konadora at TeamLiquid.net (http://www.teamliquid.net/) has translated the information:


Key points:


Fomos reporters were given 45 minutes to take a look at the latest SC2 updates today (21st May 2009)
It boasts an 'observer mode' that will help reach new heights for competitive e-Sports

- When in observer mode, observers can:
> Go on a 'none' mode, meaning no menus will be shown.
> Can also choose between the following 6 types: Resources, Spending, Units, Production, Army, APM.

Resources mode:
> Menu shows resources gathered by players, as well as their supply count

Spending mode:
> Can see where and how much the players are spending on these 3 areas: economy, tech and army

Unit mode:
> Shows the units' icons and how many units the players have in numerical figures

Production mode:
> Shows what units and buildings are being built, and once they are built, they will be removed from the menu

Army mode:
> Shows amount of minerals and gas spent on the units

APM mode:
> Shows players' APM (Action-per-Minute)

Sources:
Fomos.kr (http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=95767&db=issue&cate=&page=1&field=&kwrd=)
Teamliquid.net (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93769)

n00bonicPlague
05-21-2009, 09:56 AM
Credit goes to Perfecttear (http://sclegacy.com/forums/member.php?u=198) for the info interception. :)

Blazur
05-21-2009, 09:56 AM
Pretty widely known at this point, but worth sharing nonetheless. I wonder if there's an option to suppress the UI...possibly while in the 'none' mode?

Wish we could get our hands on that 45-minute video :)

n00bonicPlague
05-21-2009, 09:57 AM
Wish we could get our hands on that 45-minute video :)You said it, bro.

DemolitionSquid
05-21-2009, 10:09 AM
There should not be an APM counter. Fucking elitist BS.

Gradius
05-21-2009, 10:12 AM
Anybody here speak Korean? There are apparently 3 more articles:
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=95769&db=issue&cate=001&page=1&field=&kwrd=
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=95768&db=issue&cate=001&page=1&field=&kwrd=
http://www.fomos.kr/board/board.php?mode=read&keyno=95766&db=issue&cate=001&page=1&field=&kwrd=



Wish we could get our hands on that 45-minute video :)
The google-translated version of their article says this:

Starcraft 2 is the demonstration as a photo and video shooting inevitable impossible to pass the contents of the article is only.So apparently shooting the video was impossible.

Blazur
05-21-2009, 10:19 AM
Anybody here speak Korean? There are apparently 3 more articles:

There's a Korean speaking member of SCWire. I'll try and solicit input from him and report back if anything is revealed.

n00bonicPlague
05-21-2009, 11:09 AM
Used Google Translate, and best I can tell......

The first one seems to be someone saying that SC2 offers play very similar to SC and that SC veterans could easily pick up SC2 and play it like a normal SC game -- either that, or they are complaining that it is just SC1 in 3D. The second one makes comments on how the gaming interface brings the best of SC1and WC3 together. The third one makes comments on how the menu configuration is similar to WC3's.

Basically, it's nothing that we don't already know. I'll see if there is anything I can fish out.

ChaosSmurf
05-21-2009, 11:15 AM
There should not be an APM counter. Fucking elitist BS.

My God am I bad at telling when you're kidding.

sandwich_bird
05-21-2009, 12:52 PM
There should not be an APM counter. Fucking elitist BS.People would use third party program to find their apm anyways (bwcharts?) so why not.

SpiderBrigade
05-21-2009, 12:57 PM
Hmm, interesting. I wonder if there will be a way to view more than one of these stat windows at the same time. It seems weird to prevent you from getting a full overview of the game. I also am curious about whether it will be practical to pull information from a game, or perhaps lock your view into "first-person-mode" for the players. In televised pro matches you will sometimes show in-game stats separate from video of the game, and will try to get a setup for first-person but it often looks bad since I don't think they pull the view from one player's screen but instead just shoot video of the screen over their shoulder. So it would be cool to have the observer mode allow you to do this by default.

Edit:
There should not be an APM counter. Fucking elitist BS.
People would use third party program to find their apm anyways (bwcharts?) so why not.If Blizzard does the APM counter correctly it might actually be much more interesting or more useful than BWcharts or similar programs which as far as I know basically counts how many times you click in a way the game can detect (selecting a unit counts). A built-in function could do a lot more than this, and be smarter.

For instance, Blizzard could set the game up to differentiate between selections and actual commands. They could also categorise commands so you could see in real time not only the total APM (maybe not that interesting) but also how it is being spent (IMO hugely interesting). In other words if one player is giving larger numbers of commands to his army units while the other is focusing his energy on production commands, that would be really interesting to know.

On sort of an unrelated note, it seems kind of weird to me to close the thread we already had on this on the main SC2 discussion board. I mean, yes, this is new info about the game so it is a "News Update" I guess but what do we talk about in SC2 Discussion then? For instance, the "Possible Changes: Hydralisk and Roach" thread was also news but not moved over here. Not a huge deal obviously, just curious.

Blazur
05-21-2009, 01:58 PM
Here's some follow-up feedback on the gameplay experience.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93776



On sort of an unrelated note, it seems kind of weird to me to close the thread we already had on this on the main SC2 discussion board. I mean, yes, this is new info about the game so it is a "News Update" I guess but what do we talk about in SC2 Discussion then? For instance, the "Possible Changes: Hydralisk and Roach" thread was also news but not moved over here. Not a huge deal obviously, just curious.

Everything written to the homepage of SCLegacy not only shows up on this sub-forum but also in their RSS feeds (and thus the community (http://sc2pod.com/trackers/community/?id=2320)). They're likely trying to consolidate the threads so this has the most relevant discussion. Expect this to happen continuously moving forward as other relevant topics surface, all in an effort to gain maximum exposure for SCLegacy.

Edit: More interesting tidbits commented on by a SC2GDF member.

1. People say that Dark Pylon has Phase Shift, and Phoenix has its Overload skill back. True?

2. Thor's Particle Cannon deals 500 damage to one target. Confirm?

3. What exactly are Infestor's current skills? In the event it had Fungal Infestation, Infested Marines, and Neural Parasite. No mention about disease. ???

4. What kinds of upgrades are in Engineering Bay?
From this event I learned that it has MIssile Turret / Planetary Fortress attack range +1 upgrade and Bunker maximum load upgrade (from 4 to 6).

Source: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=17345814411&sid=3000

It's very possible Blizz used this as a silent event to test out various ideas they've been throwing around. Although I'm interested in that new Thor weapon...it's sounding promising.

Alex06
05-21-2009, 04:01 PM
APM counter is a nice add-on actually.

I also hope you can zoom in and rotate the view like in 3D C&C games...This would be very good in an RTS game, especially while observing.

Another idea would be to be able to customize what menus you want to see when observing, and putting them on a 2nd screen, for people who have dual monitors. This wouldn't affect gameplay, as it'd be for observing players only.

Also, I hope they bring commentating into the game, like EA did with C&C3 and RA3...That would definately be nice.

Perfecttear
05-21-2009, 04:06 PM
Source: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=17345814411&sid=3000



I am looking at all threads on teamliquid and haven't jet find anything to confirm, what is sad on that thread:S


Edit: I'll post the users follow-up feedback on the gameplay experience, that blazur linked:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93776








On May 21, there was a SC2 testing event in S. Korea for select few invitees.

From an user post at Fomos:

Key points - good game speed, good graphics, and Terran is still awesome.

Graphics was solid. Units and buildings are more conspicuous than they were in the latest Battle Report. Game speed is really fast. Units speed is comparable to SC1, but once a battle starts, it ends quickly. This is partially due to Zealots and Stalkers having low life points and Banelings.

One gas is comparable to 0.75 gas in SC1, in terms of macro resource management. Two gasses is comparable to 1.5 gases in SC1. In a main base play, one gas is not sufficient for upgrades and/or gas units.

Automatic resources gathering is convenient, and that extra room for control all goes to unit control.

Following is the new scoop on each race and my experience with some strategies:

http://wire.ggl.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/scbattlecruiser.jpg

Terran
- Main base play is really good! It's incomparable to SC1. In SC1, 7 Marines/1 Medic/1 Dropship play is good, but in SC2, 16 Marines/2 Medivac is even better. Without Banelings or Roaches, Zerg is dead to this strategy. Going straight to Lair is dead too. This is due to the presence of Reactor.
- Hot keys: Scan = w, Reactor = o, Tech Lab = a
- Marine's gunfire comes and goes so smoothly that, in terms of appearances, it's hard to distinguish between normal attack and Stim attack.
- Viking has ridiculously long air-to-air shooting range.

http://www.starcraft2weblog.com/wp-content/uploads/starcraft2screenshot4.jpg


Zerg
- Banelings are essential! Lair tech is futile. Locating Zerglins in an arch shape on the top of a ramp is useless.
- Mutals are really fast!
- Broodlings - they have 20 life points, but they look bigger and stronger than Zerglings. My units were suddenly dead when they were attacking buildings at a close range.
- New attack style of Spine Crawlers - instead hitting directly from the ground, something comes up and attacks like a lance. Looks ugly!
- Not much change on Queens and Infested Terran
- Long shooting range of Hydralisks - while attacking with Stalkers and Colossus, Colossus behind Stalkers were easily shot by Hydralisks.
- Queens cost 150 minerals each, so they don't affect tech tree much.
- Spawning Pool looks good!

http://www.starcraft2weblog.com/wp-content/uploads/starcraft2screenshot2.jpg

Protoss
- Phoenix is really fast. Faster than Scourages or upgraded Scouts in SC1. It kills Overlords about 1.5 times faster than Corsair. Overlords will be all dead if Zerg doesn't prepare air-attacking units soon. Moving shot seems difficult; it halts briefly before attacking. Overall, Phoenix is awesome.
- 3 Gates strategy - doesn't work because of Banelings. Zealots are all dead on the way. But I killed Overlords with Phoenix and won the match.
- Carrier - Interceptors don't move as good as in SC1. Instead of swinging by the opponents and attacking, it feels that they are rotating in a circle. Attacking motion should be faster.
- Probe - it has to kinds of beams! When gathering, the beam is kinda purple haze; when attacking, it's about the same in SC1.
- Colossus - it's strong but has short shooting range. It's not easy to use. Warp Prism is not necessary. It's hard to micro this with other units. I pressed "attack" with Colossus and some other units, and Colossus climbed up ahead of other units and was killing Dronge by himself. I got lucky this time, but at other times Colossue would have been dead by himself. It kills Hydralisks well, and Hydralisks kill it well, too.

Overall, it's bad for Zerg. In SC1, even if Terran or Protoss does a main base play, Zerg could have gone by with Sunken Colonies defense. That's impossible in SC2. Zerg can go Lair only if Terran or Protoss takes the first expansion. It's really painful to defend 16 Marines/2 Medivacs.

I told my opponents I would go for macro-later-game styles. But I experimented some strategies and played speedy games. I apologize!

FROM ANOTEHR USER!!!
1. Game Speed
- Overall, speed was good. It's comparable to SC1.
2. Unit
a. Terran
- Marauder is really good compared to its price and place on tech tree. 120 hit points! For Protoss, it's hopeless without Zealots with speed upgrade. For Zerg, it's fucked!
b. Zerg
- Game play will different depending on the use of Queen.
- Up to 5 eggs per Hatchery. So it's easy to get like 30 Zerglings in a short time.
- Units are kinda weak!
- Against Terran, Zerg will be difficult. Zerg has good quantity, but Marauders can go into Bunkers!
c. Protoss
- Zealots are stronger than expected. 6 Zerglings have a hard time beating 2 Zealots.
- Not that much different from SC1

http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:CGaO8TotmfgkQM:http://tombammann.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/06/ss5-hires.jpg

3. Resource
- 4 gas/pick. 5 mineral/pick. 6 gatherers at start. Unit count at start - Terran = 11, Zerg/Protoss = 10
- Even with two gases at main base, gas seems to be insufficient. I was glad to see two gases at main base but then ran out of gas!
- As everyone knows, there is High Yield minerals. I don't expect there to be a problem with mineral shortage.
- Overall, I feel that gas is important. When and how to get it seems to be important during games.
4. Style
- Overall, it feels similar to SC1, despite the 3D. Good mixture with WarCraft 3 interface. Nonethless, SC1 users will get used to it.
- Macro control doesn't have as much weight, because of the ability to select many buildings at once. There shouldn't be a wide range of skills in terms of macro.
5. Overall, it was fun! 90 minutes was a short time. Fun to play, fun to watch.
6. Can SC2 be successful?
- It's very likely. Fun-to-watch part is especially good. Overall, it seems to be a good sequel to SC1. In S. Korea, it's gonna be a big success. It's true that not many Blizzard games have failed in the country, and capturing the fun-to-watch component is well-done. It feels more like SC1 than WarCraft 3.



.

Pandonetho
05-21-2009, 08:52 PM
There should not be an APM counter. Fucking elitist BS.

Oh please, it doesn't affect you whatsoever. You think Blizzard is going to skip out on something like APM and get a backlash from the elitists that such a simple feature couldn't be implemented?

Obvious shit is obvious, implementing it isn't going to hurt anyone. Just because you hate elitists doesn't mean that something like an APM counter shouldn't be included.

DemolitionSquid
05-21-2009, 08:54 PM
Oh please, it doesn't affect you whatsoever. You think Blizzard is going to skip out on something like APM and get a backlash from the elitists that such a simple feature couldn't be implemented?

Obvious shit is obvious, implementing it isn't going to hurt anyone. Just because you hate elitists doesn't mean that something like an APM counter shouldn't be included.

Obviously you still don't understand how I operate.

But you'll learn.

Just like those damn nigg...

http://www.illustrationsof.com/images/clipart/thumbnail2/8951_human-like_entertaining_bear_dancing_on_stage_with_a_can e_and_hat_in_the_spotlight.jpg

Eligor
05-21-2009, 09:06 PM
Interesting. So Terran seem to have the edge now and air units are made as lethal as possible in unexpected ways (by the sound of it speed may very well end up being the Phoenix's signature advantage, and does it mean that Vikings outrange Battlecruisers, but not Carriers?).

P.S. And surprisingly enough Boodlings DO make a difference. And perhaps this needs a thread of its own.

RamiZ
05-22-2009, 12:47 PM
Im glad to hear that Phoenix isnt a useless crap, and that Mutas are fast ;P