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View Full Version : Oh Smartcasting, oh Smartcasting......(some blues)



n00bonicPlague
12-15-2009, 11:18 AM
Source: Siege mode (http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=21730686318&sid=3000)


If I have a group of siege tanks selected, say 8, and I want to put them into siege mode, will i have to press the hotkey 8 times or once?
As already mentioned in this thread, you’ll have to press the key only once and all the siege tanks will go in siege mode.
Some other examples, just to clarify things up:

Stalker’s Blink, Zerg’s Burrow, Battle cruiser’s Defensive Matrix, Baneling’s Explode, Viking’s switching from air-mode to ground-mode: you’ll only have to press the key once to trigger the ability for all the selected units at once (be careful with those Banelings!)

High Templar’s Psi Storm, Disruptor’s Force Field, Zerg’s mutations (Zerglings to Banelings, etc.): smart casting will kick in here and you’ll have to press the key for every selected unit.


What kind of damage + bonus does the baneling do now? Is it still primarily anti-infantry or does it have an anti-building focus too? Does it have friendly fire? If I hit explode does it explode immediately rather than I hit explode and then target an area/unit? I assuming the former since it's on mass cast rather than smart cast.

BTW have you been reading our Macro threads (Archer's threads), what do you think about our proposed Protoss mechanics? You realize this is an attempt to get you to spill some beans about what Blizz is developing :P

I know you give us a tidbit of info and we always want more :)
@Crazy_dave
At the moment there's no friendly fire associated to the Explode ability.
The baneling explode exactly when you press the key, no targeting needed, no delay.

Yes, we've been following the thread you're referring to and we're quite interested in the discussion going on there.
I suggest you to continue posting your suggestions because your opinion matters to us, even if we don't always reply to every single thread.


Looks like psi storm will be a lot easier to cast. I don't really see the need of smartcasting for zerg's mutations though.
@Phase_tn
Here's one occasion where I think you might need smart casting. Let's assume you have 20 Zerglings currently selected, you don't have a lot of vespene gas and you feel the need for 5 or so Banelings. Without smart casting you'll have to manually select 5 of these little dodgy creatures and then morph them, or else you'll be mutating all of the 20 Zerglings into Banelings (and deplete your vespene reserves in the meanwhile).
With smart casting on the other hand you'll be able to mutate 5 of them in a matter of seconds without deselecting them, just by pressing the key 5 times in a row.


Obviously this is just an example, but I feel that smart casting has a role to play here.Your thoughts?

ArcherofAiur
12-15-2009, 11:23 AM
Yes, we've been following the thread you're referring to and we're quite interested in the discussion going on there.
I suggest you to continue posting your suggestions because your opinion matters to us, even if we don't always reply to every single thread.
http://assets.gearlive.com/endscore/blogimages/dynamic_duo.jpg

Quick! To the Theorycraft Cave!









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n00bonicPlague
12-15-2009, 11:35 AM
SOCK! POW! ZOK!x

ArcherofAiur
12-15-2009, 11:39 AM
REDUNDANT TARGETING!x

Perfecttear
12-15-2009, 11:40 AM
No don't encourage them! Just let that thread die :p


http://lolcat.com/images/lolcats/529.jpg

ArcherofAiur
12-15-2009, 11:41 AM
Too late. I move for that thread to be renamed



EPIC MACRO THREAD: Now Endorsed by Blizzard



Discussing Roach and Mutalisk balance is all well and good. But I really believe that the topic Blizzard is most looking for feedback from is Macro. This is the issue that the fans can most greatly shaped.

n00bonicPlague
12-15-2009, 11:49 AM
When did Perfecttear move from Vatican City to Alaska?

Perfecttear
12-15-2009, 11:55 AM
When did Perfecttear move from Vatican City to Alaska?

Wtf i would never move to Alaska, atleast not alive:D

http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/URLAKOFFAITH128398236406250000.jpg

n00bonicPlague
12-15-2009, 11:57 AM
Wait......



......did I just make the mistake I think I just did?

Perfecttear
12-15-2009, 12:05 PM
I'm just wondering, if could someone explain to me in short, what exactly is being debated there?

Quirel
12-15-2009, 12:08 PM
Ooooooohhhhhh Nicole....

Guess who's just been proven wrong on Zerg's active abilities...

ArcherofAiur
12-15-2009, 12:15 PM
Ooooooohhhhhh Nicole....

Guess who's just been proven wrong on Zerg's active abilities...

He'll just make an exception.

The_Blade
12-15-2009, 12:17 PM
When did Perfecttear move from Vatican City to Alaska?

She did not moved to alaska, its called ANTARCTICA. Spell with me A N T A R C T I C A :P. Jiss, hate geografical incorrect people... though I feel ok with grammer problems. ^^

flabortast
12-15-2009, 12:18 PM
@Quirel
Nicol wasn't proven wrong. Detonate is just another facet of the Banelings attack.

ArcherofAiur
12-15-2009, 12:20 PM
lol i know these forums too well.

n00bonicPlague
12-15-2009, 12:22 PM
I'm just wondering, if could someone explain to me in short, what exactly is being debated there?
I'll repeat what I said in that thread:


I think it would be nice to make an in-game toggle for smart casting and to make smart casting affect all abilities — targeted and non-targeted. There have been plenty of times that I have wanted to cast storm all at once or stagger my siege tank shots through siege-moding them one at a time. Just because something is the most convenient most of the time doesn't mean that it's always convenient all of the time. Plus, such a toggle will add something to make the game just a little more challenging (remembering when to turn on or turn off the smart casting). If that's not an option, then I suggest an out-of-game options panel where the player can check and uncheck which abilities they wish to be smart casted, so that they can make the game fit their play-style a bit better.

EDIT: In fact, Zhydaris, you just gave a perfect example of why a toggle control for smart casting would be extremely useful during the game.

This is one of those things that calls in to question the whole "level-of-ease vs level-of-control" issue that comes up in most things like this. With smart casting you gain lots of control but you lose a lot of easiness. And then when you start to pick and choose what applies and what doesn't, you get people who are unsatisfied because their needs aren't met like everyone else's. Like I said myself, there are times I like siege-moding my tanks individually and casting psi storm all at once, and forcing me to cast my psi storms separately and siege-moding my tanks all together while other players get certain luxuries is — for lack of better words — "unfair".

Raisk
12-15-2009, 12:34 PM
The easiest thing Blizzard could do regarding smart casting would be to add a shift-click functionality to it. For example if you're morphing 20 zerglings into banelings and you *do* want them all morphed, pressing Bx20 would seem annoying as hell! So why not add a shift-B which would cause all of them to be morphed at once, while just pressing B would cause only one out of the 20 to morph.

Norfindel
12-15-2009, 12:49 PM
The easiest thing Blizzard could do regarding smart casting would be to add a shift-click functionality to it. For example if you're morphing 20 zerglings into banelings and you *do* want them all morphed, pressing Bx20 would seem annoying as hell! So why not add a shift-B which would cause all of them to be morphed at once, while just pressing B would cause only one out of the 20 to morph.
That's probably a good idea. While most Smartcasteable abilities don't need this at all, morphing units used to be done by pressing the key only once. Or just don't use Smartcasting for that, and maybe allow the player to cancel unit morphs.

Perfecttear
12-15-2009, 02:25 PM
Lol Noob , i meant the macro thread :p
I did chech the thread a few times, but nothing maked sense, it was just some users raging, and ego bosting, and some random "crazy" theories and pure speculation.
I just want to know what is currently being debated there, since i don't have any intentions or of reading through all the stupid posts;) 2500+
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Greyskye/lolcats-funny-picture-lalalalala.jpg

ArcherofAiur
12-15-2009, 02:28 PM
We should put together some kind of cliff notes version. There really is good debate hidden in all the shouting matches.

MattII
12-15-2009, 02:35 PM
Here's one occasion where I think you might need smart casting. Let's assume you have 20 Zerglings currently selected, you don't have a lot of vespene gas and you feel the need for 5 or so Banelings. Without smart casting you'll have to manually select 5 of these little dodgy creatures and then morph them, or else you'll be mutating all of the 20 Zerglings into Banelings (and deplete your vespene reserves in the meanwhile).

Interesting, does this mean the Banelings cost gas now rather than just minerals (or instead of)?

Nicol Bolas
12-15-2009, 02:37 PM
Interesting, does this mean the Banelings cost gas now rather than just minerals (or instead of)?

They've always cost some gas.

Caliban113
12-15-2009, 02:38 PM
My understanding was that the Baneling has 'attack', 'attack building' and 'detonate' - so the player has the opportunity to detonate en masse while burrowed.

Is it now just, move>detonate?


The easiest thing Blizzard could do regarding smart casting would be to add a shift-click functionality to it. For example if you're morphing 20 zerglings into banelings and you *do* want them all morphed, pressing Bx20 would seem annoying as hell! So why not add a shift-B which would cause all of them to be morphed at once, while just pressing B would cause only one out of the 20 to morph.

This is probably best. However, don't they do this already in WC3 with 'tab'?



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Zabimaru
12-15-2009, 03:03 PM
We should put together some kind of cliff notes version. There really is good debate hidden in all the shouting matches.

You'll have to do a lot of digging. :p

MattII
12-15-2009, 03:07 PM
They've always cost some gas.

Ah, the wikia needs changing then because it says only 50 minerals. BTW, why the heck does it cost 75/25 overall (adding in the cost of the Zergling), that seems a bit steep for a one-shot unit (although I suppose to 80 damage to buildings...).

RamiZ
12-15-2009, 03:10 PM
This is probably best. However, don't they do this already in WC3 with 'tab'?
No, tab in WC3 is for switching units. But if you select 5 Obsidian Statues and click transform once, they will all transform, just like morph and Siege Mode. So no, WC3 doesn't have that. But yes, I agree they can put that, but on TAB not SHIFT. Since Shift is using for different things like doing one operation after another.

Norfindel
12-15-2009, 03:46 PM
We should put together some kind of cliff notes version. There really is good debate hidden in all the shouting matches.
That's why i suggested using one moderated thread for posting ideas and another one for the actual discussion, but nobody agreed. It would take ages to separate the suggestions inside that thing.

ArcherofAiur
12-15-2009, 03:58 PM
That's why i suggested using one moderated thread for posting ideas and another one for the actual discussion, but nobody agreed. It would take ages to separate the suggestions inside that thing.

I think the major themes are more important then the actual suggestions. Pretty much every proposed idea has had problems and come against resistance




except of course for my recent Remote Mining MULE idea :rolleyes:

Gt2slurp
12-15-2009, 04:34 PM
The easiest thing Blizzard could do regarding smart casting would be to add a shift-click functionality to it. For example if you're morphing 20 zerglings into banelings and you *do* want them all morphed, pressing Bx20 would seem annoying as hell! So why not add a shift-B which would cause all of them to be morphed at once, while just pressing B would cause only one out of the 20 to morph.

Really +1 for this one, with another key than shift. BTW, every ability should work like that. It's stupid for some (storm, force field) but just don't press the key ^^.

E.G. sometime you want to siege your entire siege tank force at the same time (toss charging on you) but you can also want to siege them at 1 sec interval. You can establish a really strong defensives line of tank without having to deselect and none of your tank is next to another. (the pack of tank is going in a direction and every half second you press "o")

Draco
12-15-2009, 05:59 PM
Ooooooohhhhhh Nicole....

Guess who's just been proven wrong on Zerg's active abilities...

Now time for the Mutalisk's Barrel Roll!

ArcherofAiur
12-15-2009, 06:10 PM
Activated ability (25 second cooldown)
-Makes Mutalisk immune to all attacks for 3 seconds
-Shuts Peppy the hell up

RamiZ
12-15-2009, 06:20 PM
Activated ability (25 second cooldown)
-Makes Mutalisk immune to all attacks for 3 seconds
-Shuts Peppy the hell up

/facepalm
...
Yeah that doesn't make them imba at all.

Btw guys what is with the resolution of SCLegacy. O.o I can barely read these small letters...

ArcherofAiur
12-15-2009, 06:21 PM
Why do I always forget my sarcastic tags...

Draco
12-15-2009, 06:21 PM
/facepalm
...
Yeah that doesn't make them imba at all.

Btw guys what is with the resolution of SCLegacy. O.o I can barely read these small letters...

Ctrl + Scroll Mouse Up

RamiZ
12-15-2009, 06:30 PM
Ctrl + Scroll Mouse Up

ROFL, thanks, my Ctrl is bugged sometimes, so it seems it was bugged while I was scrolling some text. xD