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View Full Version : My views so far having played 1 day in the beta.



TheProgramer
11-16-2012, 10:04 PM
Hey, love it, Blizzard did a great job. Just a few thoughts.

BALANCE THOUGHTS:

1: The Oracle's Attack Spell is too similar to the Void Ray's attack.

It reminds me of a Flux Vane Void Ray that's permanently charged. Obvious it has less health and only hits buildings but there was a reason flux vanes were removed.
Perhaps change out this ability so it doesn't have an overlap with the Void Ray, please do not change the void ray so that you can keep this ability.


2: The upgrade that extends Locust's life by 10 seconds is too powerfull.

If you don't have an air unit I find the counter to swarm hosts is to attack them in between their spawns. The upgrade makes that impossible since they're is no longer an inbetween.
It's hard enough to kill just swarm hosts with this upgrade, but when they have backup it's nearly impossible.


OTHER THOUGHTS:
1: I really hated the idea of Entomb being removed. Ever since it was announced it was the thing I looked foward to the most. But being able to slow down their workers and being able to use that same ability in combat I think in the end was the better decision.

2: I have been playing random (just like I did in the WoL beta) and I've found that Terran seems to be giving me the most trouble. Not sure why, but I seem to have more trouble using Terran's new units compared to the other two race's.

3: I played a 3v3 where I went only Widow Mines and it gave us such map control that we were able to handily beat our opponents. I think these new units are goign to severley change 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4.

It's been fun so far!

TheEconomist
11-16-2012, 11:03 PM
Five oracles = nexus rape in 10 seconds flat.

DemolitionSquid
11-16-2012, 11:32 PM
It's pretty much assured that Pulsar Beam will be nerfed a bit. Even a scrub can tell that 25 is a bit too high. I predict 15 at lowest, 20 at highest.

Noctis
11-17-2012, 06:39 PM
they stated VR's are going to be reworked already

TheProgramer
11-17-2012, 07:48 PM
they stated VR's are going to be reworked already

I think that's a horrible decision.

topsecret221
11-17-2012, 07:52 PM
That's a great decision. The VR is a boring unit that's only usable in cheese openings.

TheProgramer
11-17-2012, 08:24 PM
It is a great unit. The micro it demands to attack it with it's charging mechanic is interesting, and without it the Protoss will have no moderatley cheap air unit that hits air and ground.

flak4321
11-18-2012, 03:03 PM
That's a great decision. The VR is a boring unit that's only usable in cheese openings.

Actually, no. It has uses in other circumstances. I regularly counter a colossus heavy Toss by switching up from stalker/zealot/collo to stalker/void. I have also used a stalker/void/ht build with some success vs zerg and terran. The key is the hts to replace the collo splash. Basically if you have the econ and time to pull of either switch, it can be very effective. Vs. zerg you do need to be very fast though.

I've also used he build some in HotS. Combined with a few Oracles harassing, it's pretty good.

MulletBen
11-20-2012, 03:56 PM
Tempest fill the anti-colossus role better than void rays by far. As far as microing goes, void rays are admittedly more interesting than oracles, but their charge gimmick is used so very little that I don't think it matters.

The only time I've seen void rays used for legitimate strategic reasons in HOTS is to hold off a roach all-in after a phoenix/oracle opening. Otherwise, I see no strategic purposes for building void rays that are not filled by either tempests, phoenixes or oracles.

flak4321
11-20-2012, 05:53 PM
Tempest fill the anti-colossus role better than void rays by far. As far as microing goes, void rays are admittedly more interesting than oracles, but their charge gimmick is used so very little that I don't think it matters.

The only time I've seen void rays used for legitimate strategic reasons in HOTS is to hold off a roach all-in after a phoenix/oracle opening. Otherwise, I see no strategic purposes for building void rays that are not filled by either tempests, phoenixes or oracles.

I agree the tempest overlaps a lot, as does the oracle. However, I feel void rays may be preferable to Tempests in situations where gas is less than optimal and airborne anti-air is needed. I use them regularly vs. corruptor broodlord depending on corruptor coverage. The rate of fire on the tempest is too slow to be effective in a lot of these situations.

I would also prefer voids (micro'd effectively; bear in mind they get a vs massive bonus similar to the tempest) and/or collos vs Thors if the viking count stays low enough and I have gas to burn. Note: I do this vs Terran because I'm still learning storm usage, but I am mixing in some storm here and there.

I'm now of a mind to set up a test of tempest vs void ray to compare them both straight against each other, and vs certain targets. I already know that the void ray wins vs buildings and vs massive units (when charged, groups of 6-8). Wish I could remember my sources that I may mark them appropriately.

flak4321
11-20-2012, 06:00 PM
In a more on-topic note, I think the oracle's pulsar will remain closer to 20 than 15. Too much of a nerf and the unit's fragility becomes an issue too quickly.

As for playing as a Terran, their new units are extremely situational and placement specific. The hellbat is also fairly limited in its usages. Mines have more uses, but the current form makes some uses very much the risk/reward scenario, i.e. the cost of the self inflicted wounds (cost of repair or replacement) plus the build cost has to be less than the replacement cost of kills.

TcheQuevara
11-21-2012, 07:33 AM
My one impression of the Beta so far is that the in-game UI has been improved. Everything feels more pleasant to click and do. It remembers me of Diablo 3 with all its click pleasantness.

TheEconomist
11-21-2012, 04:54 PM
I had the opposite impression although that's probably because I'm not used to it yet.

RamiZ
11-21-2012, 05:07 PM
It is a great unit. The micro it demands to attack it with it's charging mechanic is interesting, and without it the Protoss will have no moderatley cheap air unit that hits air and ground.

Redesign, not remove... And interesting units that is basically useless is no good. It is useless because on a pro level, there are barely few openers and strategies that you can do with them, while it costs a lot, and is countered easily by every race, that you feel just like wasting minerals and gas on that unit. It also overlaps with Tempests as other have stated already.

They can also turn this unit into another interesting unit that will have different role and will do things better.

Twilice
11-25-2012, 07:28 AM
My first view is that swarm host are imba if a good player uses them.

Hawki
11-25-2012, 07:52 AM
Throwing in some thoughts too for what it's worth. Keep in mind that these are relatively initial thoughts.

*Viper: Rarely seen it used. When I have seen it used, it doesn't strike me as being particuarly useful. I know they have different roles, but in a way, it strikes me as being reminiscent of the corrupter. Air units that move in swarms, only the corrupter is actually useful.

*Swarm host: A very effective unit and, to its credit, very 'zergy' too IMO. They're hard to counter, but honestly, mowing down locusts as they come is just too enjoyable for me to complain.:p

*Hellbat: You know, I can't help but feel it would be more effective if the Warhound was still in the game. We'd have the Hellbat for short-range, Warhound for long-range, and Thors for anti-air. Without the Warhound (as I understand how it functioned at the end of the day), it feels useless in a mech army (in that fire won't do much good against mechanical armies and Vikings can handle infantry as well) and in an infantry-based army...well, there's room for it I guess, but I think it's far easier to just go marines, Marauders and medivacs rather than adding Hellbats in for extremely close-range stuff. Rarely used it, and I don't think I've ever seen it used.

*Widow mine: I like this unit. Hard to say why, but I do feel it's got good use, especially setting it up at expansions or in choke points-even if it can't fire, it's a good warning unit.

*Oracle: Never seen it built. Period.

*Tempest: If I have a gripe about the Tempest, it's that I feel it's eclipsed both the void ray and carrier. Carriers are good for support, but with the Tempest's range, it's a better support weapon in itself, not to mention that due to its direct attack, it's better at a head-on fight. Void rays are good at hard targets, but when Tempests are massed, one seems to get the same result. All in all, nothing wrong with the unit itself, just feel it's eclipsed the rest of the protoss fleet.

*Mothership core: Seen it used a lot. Think it's a good unit overall. Very much a support unit, but one that can be useful in the early game.

Darkdama
11-26-2012, 12:29 PM
here http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/games/hots/ on the new units info the warhound doesnt appear :s he is really removed from the game?i thought it was only temporary and on beta only0.0

RamiZ
11-26-2012, 03:13 PM
here http://eu.blizzard.com/en-gb/games/hots/ on the new units info the warhound doesnt appear :s he is really removed from the game?i thought it was only temporary and on beta only0.0

It was supposed to be temporary, but they decided to remove him for good, since Terran feels like the most complete race in WoL already.

DemolitionSquid
11-26-2012, 04:22 PM
It was supposed to be temporary, but they decided to remove him for good, since Terran feels like the most complete race in WoL already.

Which seriously concerns me for the required LotV unit additions. What the hell else does Terran need (aside from fixing units like the Thor?). There's room for a new Barracks unit I guess...

Pr0nogo
11-26-2012, 10:39 PM
There's room for a new Barracks unit I guess...

Not really, no. Blizzard boxed themselves into a hole with this 'new units every expansion!' idea. Balance the gameplay properly. That could mean tweaking existing units without adding any new ones at all.

Quirel
11-27-2012, 03:31 AM
Not really, no. Blizzard boxed themselves into a hole with this 'new units every expansion!' idea. Balance the gameplay properly. That could mean tweaking existing units without adding any new ones at all.
I agree, but it's kind of hard to justify an expansion without new units.

Perhaps they could offer new tilesets in LotV? Or a streamlined map editor?

Pr0nogo
11-27-2012, 01:01 PM
Or a streamlined map editor?

Things like this should have been 'offered' when the game was released.

DemolitionSquid
11-27-2012, 01:21 PM
We're getting new units in LotV, they can't not put new units into an expansion. We're talking cats-fucking-dogs-grade shitstorm.

The Barracks has the least amount of units now, ergo its the best place for a new unit in LotV.

TcheQuevara
11-27-2012, 01:39 PM
They're already saying they don't plan to include any new units in LotV. Damn, they even tried to exclude units from HotS...

MP balance takes so much time and money. I think Activision will be friendly with the idea of having LotV as a pure (and expensive) SP expansion, with a few MP gadgets included (like name changes!), but not anything really changing the gameplay. Inclusing no tweaks to existing units.

Gradius
11-27-2012, 01:42 PM
They're already saying they don't plan to include any new units in LotV.
That would actually be awesome. Where did they say that?

DemolitionSquid
11-27-2012, 01:59 PM
I refuse to believe it until I see a direct quote. Hell, I refuse to believe it until lotV is in my hands. An expansion without new units is, well:

http://onemansblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/inconceivable.jpg

Darkdama
11-27-2012, 02:12 PM
well than the terran race in my opinion(the tech army especially) is useless without the warhound-.- it was the best unit but thats what i think

DemolitionSquid
11-27-2012, 02:26 PM
well than the terran race in my opinion(the tech army especially) is useless without the warhound-.- it was the best unit but thats what i think

It was the best because it hadn't been balanced yet so its stats were ridiculously OP. It was a Factory Marauder, nothing more.

sandwich_bird
11-27-2012, 03:20 PM
If lotv is sp only, it won't sell as much. They have to include new units.

Terran late game is garbage. They could work on that.

Carsickness
11-27-2012, 06:36 PM
Terran late game is garbage. They could work on that.

I agree. Here's a little something I thought up as a fix:


Hay-Maker

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/spyder/images/spyder_1.jpg
(Make it more "spacey" obviously)

Size: Medium
Supply: 2
Cost 150/150
Range: 7
Attack: 10 (+5 light) damge per volley (AOE)

So here's how it would work:

The basic unit would come with 2 rows of missle pods (picture only shows one row), and can be upgraded twice. Each time adding another row.

The unit has no basic attack. Instead it must use its ability which launches it's missile barrage.
Once the Hay-Maker has launched it's pods, it will slowly reload each row at a time. The player can choose to launch its missile barrage at any time, as long as atleast one row of pods is loaded. The unit would get a little counter somewhere on it showing how many pods are loaded.
The catch, of course being that it may be better to wait until all pods are loaded before firing it off. Or to just fire what ever you've got in a tight situation.

The unit doesn't have to "seige up" or anything, but casting its ability would freeze the unit until the missles have been fired (could be interupted if need be).

Once missile barage is cast, a red ring would be put on the ground for a short time while the missiles are incoming. Not for a very long time, but enough for an enemy player to maybe get out of the way. The speed to do so would be similar to splitting against banelings.

It would be deadly in chokes, and for terrain control. If you had enough, you could chain barrage a single location, giving an enemy pause on whether or not to run through.


I think it'de be cool to see missles flying around similar to the warhound.

Quirel
11-27-2012, 06:54 PM
I agree. Here's a little something I thought up as a fix:


Hay-Maker

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/spyder/images/spyder_1.jpg
(Make it more "spacey" obviously)

Done.
http://img.defencetalk.com/pictures/data/3765/medium/MLRS_1.jpg


So here's how it would work:

The basic unit would come with 2 rows of missle pods (picture only shows one row), and can be upgraded twice. Each time adding another row.

So, this?
http://i46.tinypic.com/slnt7d.jpg


The unit has no basic attack. Instead it must use its ability which launches it's missile barrage.
Ah. Definitely the above.

Pr0nogo
11-27-2012, 07:01 PM
The Wolverine has a weak anti-ground grenade launcher attack, and uses the missile barrage as an ability.

Carsickness
11-27-2012, 10:10 PM
Ah. Definitely the above.

Yes! That exactly lol. Put that in

Quirel
11-30-2012, 01:19 AM
The Wolverine has a weak anti-ground grenade launcher
Two of those words do not belong in the same sentence.
But yes, it had one, and it was perplexingly useless. Was only good for taking out the odd group of infection forms.


and uses the missile barrage as an ability.
Yes, I know, but Carsickness specified that the Haymaker's barrage attack would be an ability.

Pr0nogo
11-30-2012, 02:59 AM
I wasn't countering anything you were saying, just adding details about the Wolverine specifically.

TcheQuevara
11-30-2012, 09:34 AM
That would actually be awesome. Where did they say that?

I can't access YouTube from here. But let's see: I remember Chris Sigaty talking about it in an interview... at MLG Anaheim?

Of course, just because they're promissing it doesn't mean they'll do it. In this interview, Sigaty said they had no idea what to sell in the expasion if there were no extra units.

I think everything here depends on Activision. If they want more units, Blizzard will give them. But I believe Blizzard itself doesn't want it.

I'd like to believe that they would have the time to watch HotS develop, since LotV would take a lot of time anyway, and figure out what units to pull out... but probably not. That's not how things work. They'll either start designing the new units in june/july 2013 or don't do them at all.

Don't you guys remember Activision wanted Blizzard to sell 6 new products in 3 years? Well, they're late. So maybe we see LotV done in 2014. Skipping the MP part would meke everything so much easier to them.

So maybe LotV will be more a Chris Sigaty responsability than a David Kim one...?

TheEconomist
11-30-2012, 07:05 PM
*sigh*

They said they wouldn't force new units if it didn't feel right, nothing more.



Don't you guys remember Activision wanted Blizzard to sell 6 new products in 3 years?

They said one major product a year, not two. I know. I actually listen to the investors calls instead of hearsay from hearsay from some dude on YouTube who thought he heard it from a dude in a forum.

Are Brazilian Blizzard fan sites really that awful? Methinks you'd be better off with Google Translate.


I can't access YouTube from here.

Props of counter-democracay???

TcheQuevara
12-01-2012, 11:05 PM
I can't access Youtube from work. I agree that's the same as dictadorship.

And though my Englsh writing skills aren't extraordinaire, I can read English pretty well. I don't browse Brazilian fan sites. The video I was talking about was a Chris Sigaty interview.

I can remember the number was six products in three years. You should trust my memory instead of requesting me sources.

Pr0nogo
12-01-2012, 11:58 PM
You should trust my memory instead of requesting me sources.

No, we shouldn't. I should not take anything on faith.

Prove it.

TheEconomist
12-02-2012, 12:28 AM
I can remember the number was six products in three years. You should trust my memory instead of requesting me sources.

Fair warning, before we go down this road, I was basically an unofficial newsposter on SCL for about two years. There's probably hundreds of topics still here from when I was posting news, go check for yourself. There was very little that happened that I didn't know of.

You really want to keep going?

sandwich_bird
12-02-2012, 02:10 AM
Now that I think back on it, I actually do seem to remember something about them not wanting to include new units in lotv. I don't think it was a video though. TO THE GOOGLE MACHINE!!!!

Find 1: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/06/14/starcraft-2-lead-talks-new-units-and-the-problem-with-legacy-of-the-void.aspx

At around 1:40 Chris says that maybe they won't add anything in lotv and instead maybe add new modes or something.

Find 2: http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/StarCraft_II:_Legacy_of_the_Void

''Chris Sigaty has expressed doubt that new units will be added to the game, and that if they are added, it is likely that other units will be removed from multiplayer''

So there indeed was a video about Chris saying that he might not add new units in the game but it's not the official decision yet. Saying that ''they plan'' to do so might be an exaggeration. It could happen though.

TheEconomist
12-02-2012, 07:54 AM
Thanks bird, I'm just too lazy these days to quote hunt.

Care to tackle this "six products in three years" fallacy?


I'm a Terran player.

Yes, Sigaty, WE KNOW!!!

Gradius
12-02-2012, 08:31 AM
You should trust my memory instead of requesting me sources.
^---pretty sure this was sarcasm guys.

sandwich_bird
12-02-2012, 05:43 PM
Care to tackle this "six products in three years" fallacy?


http://www.gamespot.com/news/blizzard-three-year-plan-includes-two-world-of-warcraft-starcraft-ii-add-ons-6333260

''Speaking at the Citi 2011 Technology Conference today, Activision Blizzard COO Thomas Tippl said that over the next three years, the publisher is expecting six "proven property" releases from Blizzard. These releases include two expansion packs each from World of Warcraft and Starcraft II. ''

We can all agree that it won't happen though.

Alar
12-03-2012, 08:55 AM
Well, Thomas Tippl is a moron. How's the beta? :D

TheEconomist
12-03-2012, 09:59 AM
Oh, so we're talking all of Blizzard's franchises.