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Equiliari
11-13-2012, 09:20 AM
It has been set!

12th of March 2013.
HOTS release date and presale (http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/6512880/Heart_of_the_Swarm_Arrives_March_12_2013_%E2%80%94 _Presales_NOW_LIVE-13_11_2012)

Some more info about it:
https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/starcraft-ii-heart-of-the-swarm-presale-faq

TheEconomist
11-13-2012, 09:53 AM
Awesome, right in the middle of school. I've had the last 8 months off and you wait until I'm back in school. The curse of Blizzard strikes for the fourth time!

DemolitionSquid
11-13-2012, 02:16 PM
Brilliant marketing boys. They'll release just in time for the mad gift rush of Girl Scouts Day.

Rake
11-13-2012, 02:42 PM
Hooray!

Maybe I will buy a new comp in time so I can finally play in high def.

Especially so I can watch marine arms fly across the screen. :D

DemolitionSquid
11-13-2012, 02:46 PM
Especially so I can watch marine arms fly across the screen. :D

This is why the 2nd amendment needs to be amended. When you say "arms" I can't be sure if you're talking about guns or limbs. So vague >_<

Alex06
11-13-2012, 08:10 PM
This is why the 2nd amendment needs to be amended. When you say "arms" I can't be sure if you're talking about guns or limbs. So vague >_<
The illicit arms trade has been very damaging to world economy - People keep exchanging their arms! What's next, legs?

SebiAlex
11-13-2012, 08:19 PM
$40?

Original was what, $60? They want me to reward them for a tiny amount of effort (compared to making wol), with 2/3rds of the value. Ridiculous, and the deluxe is pure nonsense: $20 for a skin, a pet, 3 icons and a diablo 3 item. Hell, the entire Torchlight 2 game costs the same, and it offers a full game. Shit, for $40 it better blow my mind.

The expansion took almost 3 years to make, 3 years. And what, I have to wait another 3 for the protoss story? The entire mass effect 2 game took less than that to make, and it was the most amazing game I have played in the last decade. The value of blizz games has gone to shit.

This is going to be the first blizz game I don't buy at launch. I can't believe it got to the point where I'll have to read reviews first.

Kimera757
11-13-2012, 08:42 PM
A typical expansion costs $40. But people gotta bitch.

TheProgramer
11-13-2012, 08:58 PM
I pre-odered the collectors edition from Amazon and got into the HOTS beta for it. Unfortunatley I was unable to get in before they removed entomb. So wish I could of tried that out *cries*.

Kimera757
11-13-2012, 09:16 PM
Amazon's beta actually works? I was skeptical about that until now.

Triceron
11-13-2012, 09:39 PM
$40?

Original was what, $60? They want me to reward them for a tiny amount of effort (compared to making wol), with 2/3rds of the value. Ridiculous, and the deluxe is pure nonsense: $20 for a skin, a pet, 3 icons and a diablo 3 item. Hell, the entire Torchlight 2 game costs the same, and it offers a full game. Shit, for $40 it better blow my mind.

The expansion took almost 3 years to make, 3 years. And what, I have to wait another 3 for the protoss story? The entire mass effect 2 game took less than that to make, and it was the most amazing game I have played in the last decade. The value of blizz games has gone to shit.

This is going to be the first blizz game I don't buy at launch. I can't believe it got to the point where I'll have to read reviews first.

What exactly are you looking forward to in HOTS? Reading what you wrote I get the impression you're simply frustrated over stuff you don't really care much about.

SebiAlex
11-13-2012, 09:42 PM
A typical expansion costs $40. But people gotta bitch.

Hell yes. I don't accept less quality for increased cost. In my opinion the sc2 exp is not worth $40. It's definitely too early to say that with 100% certainty, because I haven't played it yet, but from what info I do have I don't see the value.

They raised it to this price because they fumbled for 3 years to its release (dev salaries). With the budget and talent that they have available, I'm very surprised almost nothing gets done in a reasonable amount of time. I have no idea what the problem is, but it looks like their assets are used very inefficiently, almost like too much time is spent on managerial things, office politics.

I'm very curious if most people believe the quality of blizz games reflect their price accurately (in recent times).

SebiAlex
11-13-2012, 09:50 PM
What exactly are you looking forward to in HOTS? Reading what you wrote I get the impression you're simply frustrated over stuff you don't really care much about.

I'm jaded by the steady decline of a company I used to admire.

Imo, they ruined the sc story, and from the looks of it they will do the same with the exp. SC multiplayer is awesome, but the changes made for the exp are not worth $40, and I just can't believe it took 3 years to do the campaign. What the hell are they doing there.

topsecret221
11-13-2012, 10:35 PM
Gamestop's beta works

Triceron
11-13-2012, 10:41 PM
I can agree with that. The story took a nosedive, and it lacks the epic drama and interesting character conflict the original had.

As for dev time and content, while I agree that the 2 years it's taken to come up with said content is lackluster compared to the turnarounds of Brood war and The Frozen Throne, the SC2 development team is the smallest in Blizzard (~40 people) and the time it takes to create content has increased significantly over the past 10 years.

They're also working on Blizzard Allstars, which is probably the only thing I'm looking forward to for HOTS (and not necessarily to play, but for the assets).

But I agree, with the 3 different payment options they have, I wish they would make a cheaper expansion that's like $15-20 for multiplayer-only and a multiplayer-only standalone that's maybe $30-45. They need to appeal back to the casual market that's being whisked away by F2P's.

TheEconomist
11-14-2012, 12:19 AM
I forgot to even check for HOTS CE's. Glad you posted that. Now I'll (hopefully) be in the beta since I just pre-ordered.

Only 80$. Talk about bang for you buck </deadsrs> And, I'll be getting a standard edition on release day.

sandwich_bird
11-14-2012, 02:34 AM
I'm not sure if I'll get the CE this time. The mouse pad is pretty nice and I always enjoy the behind the scene + artbook but the ingame stuff is meh. At least it's not 100$.


and I just can't believe it took 3 years to do the campaign. What the hell are they doing there.

I don't know if you ever saw one those video showing their office but I can totally understand why they're working so slowly.

Hawki
11-14-2012, 02:38 AM
This is why the 2nd amendment needs to be amended. When you say "arms" I can't be sure if you're talking about guns or limbs. So vague >_<

I'd like to think the US constitution allows its citizens to keep their own limbs.:p


$40?

Original was what, $60?

$100 dollars where I'm from. And don't get me started on the lack of an R-rating.:(


They want me to reward them for a tiny amount of effort (compared to making wol), with 2/3rds of the value. Ridiculous, and the deluxe is pure nonsense: $20 for a skin, a pet, 3 icons and a diablo 3 item.

And an artbook and mouse pad.:p


The expansion took almost 3 years to make, 3 years.

Was there confirmation work began in 2010? I doubt they'd go right to it before patching up WoL and the like.


They raised it to this price because they fumbled for 3 years to its release (dev salaries). With the budget and talent that they have available, I'm very surprised almost nothing gets done in a reasonable amount of time. I have no idea what the problem is, but it looks like their assets are used very inefficiently, almost like too much time is spent on managerial things, office politics.

Increased development times aside, you realize that in the period of HotS's development, Blizz was working on 4 games (HotS included), 5 if you include Blizzard AllStars?


I'm jaded by the steady decline of a company I used to admire.

At best, brand loyalty will result in tears in the end. At worst...well, that's too OT.


But I agree, with the 3 different payment options they have, I wish they would make a cheaper expansion that's like $15-20 for multiplayer-only and a multiplayer-only standalone that's maybe $30-45. They need to appeal back to the casual market that's being whisked away by F2P's.

I'm tempted to play the "no God no!" clip, but not only has that long been a cliche, but admittedly, it isn't a bad idea for those only interested in multiplayer. Still, even if there was a singleplayer-only F2P model, I'd still go for a physical copy of a game anyday. Golden oldie and all that. Raised on the Megadrive, cut my teeth on the N64.:)

SebiAlex
11-14-2012, 05:01 AM
I didn't know the team was so small, but when I think about it I guess it makes sense. WoW and D3 stand to make more $ than SC. As for dev time, WoL was released on July 27, 2010 and HoTS will be released on March 12, 2013 so around 2 years and 7 months. I thought the development started before the release date of WoL, at least the conceptual design and art. I'm not certain but weren't they supposed to ship one exp every year?

Maybe they're all working on their super secret next gen mmo, and took all talent from the rest of the teams, would explain the horrendous D3 storyline :P

Hawki
11-14-2012, 05:13 AM
I'm not certain but weren't they supposed to ship one exp every year?

Certainly not an expansion in each franchise. I recall a stated goal to release three games in 2012 (D3, HotS and MoP), but I guess that won't come to pass.


Maybe they're all working on their super secret next gen mmo, and took all talent from the rest of the teams, would explain the horrendous D3 storyline :P

Actually thought the D3 storyline was...well, not horrendous, I'll put it that way, and certainly a MUCH better story than D1 and LoD. But as to your point, as of Sep. 2012, they have over 100 people working on Titan. Go figure.

SebiAlex
11-14-2012, 07:41 AM
Found some articles from back in the day:

Date: Oct 13, 2008
Link: http://www.joystiq.com/2008/10/13/blizzard-vp-starcraft-2-trilogy-on-the-3-year-plan/


"In a lot of ways, you should think about the follow-ups as being kind of expansion sets to the original. It's just that the campaigns are not going to feel like expansions, they're going to feel like full, independent stories.

So, you know with any luck, it would be like a year for each successive one, but that's going to be a target date, that's not a promise."

I think this is where I was remembering the one exp every year part.


"We would do the retail price based on the value that we're putting in the box. So, if the value in the box is less than the original, then we're going to price it like that. We're not just trying to get people to pay full price for something that's less, if the followups end up having the feature set of an expansion, then that's how they'll get priced."

Let's hope. It means I should at least get two thirds of the value of WoL, can't wait to test that statement.

Date: Sept 18, 2009
Link: http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2010/09/18/starcraft-ii-wasn-t-originally-planned-as-a-trilogy.aspx


"When fans said we weren’t giving them value, we knew that wasn’t true, but we knew that we were costing fans something if they only came to the game for Zerg and now have to wait another two years,"

Re-evaluation of dev time between expansions.

I'm a Protoss player, I love anything Protoss. I'm gonna get grey hairs by the time they release the 2nd exp :(

TheProgramer
11-14-2012, 08:21 AM
Gamestop's beta works

Gamestop? Ew!

TheEconomist
11-14-2012, 08:36 AM
I think this is where I was remembering the one exp every year part.

Yeah, but that was before WoL's SP tanked. I can't imagine its negative reception didn't have something to do with the great length they've been working on HotS. Hopefully, they took this time to turn the negative trend around. I doubt it, but I'm hopeful.

Gradius
11-14-2012, 10:02 AM
Hopefully, they took this time to turn the negative trend around.
pffffff...

hahahaha! ;D

I always love your jokes Tychus. I doubt they'd even do something as simple as re-record the lines to fix some flaws. But hey, I like being surprised. I think we can instead attribute their sloth to the small team size and jumping through hoops with office politics.

I always got the sense that the dialog in WoL was written by multiple people, probably even including the actual map level designers. As for the actual SP mechanics itself, it doesn't really need fixing, that's something I've always enjoyed. I'd say if they were to fix anything it should be re-recording lines, fixing cinematics, and redoing missions & objectives. The pre-rendered cinematics are definitely not changing from their original vision, and we know those are crucial to the story.

TheEconomist
11-14-2012, 10:48 AM
Damnit Grad, I'm trolling myself. Leave me be! At least I'll get some peace until the truth is smacked in my face at release! No, I don't really have any hope, like I said, just trolling myself.

Rake
11-14-2012, 11:58 AM
Damnit Grad, I'm trolling myself. Leave me be! At least I'll get some peace until the truth is smacked in my face at release! No, I don't really have any hope, like I said, just trolling myself.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhJQp-q1Y1s

DemolitionSquid
11-14-2012, 12:51 PM
We should ask Nate Silver to predict Blizzard's release timeline from now on.

Pr0nogo
11-14-2012, 12:54 PM
SC2 isn't even impressive for a bunch of interns squabbling about, flailing their arms in a pathetic attempt to stop being Tony or Peter.

And Grad, you know half the campaign was gimmicks. Mesk already explained this to you.

Gradius
11-14-2012, 01:32 PM
And Grad, you know half the campaign was gimmicks. Mesk already explained this to you.
The campaign was still enjoyable with gimmicks. More so than the SC1 campaign, and any fan-campaign I've played.

Mesk never defined why he thinks a wall of fire is "unnecessary and just there for the hell of it," and why a wall of zerg serving the same exact function is any better. Same thing with lava or his suggested "void zones". It's just cherrypicking. The problem with the gimmicks as we've all established is the writing, which is independent from the scenario when we're just talking about gameplay.

TheEconomist
11-14-2012, 03:22 PM
We should ask Nate Silver to predict Blizzard's release timeline from now on.

Reading his book now. Never heard so much obvious logic turned into revolutionary revelation.

Pr0nogo
11-14-2012, 04:44 PM
tsk tsk, silly grad

Quirel
11-15-2012, 12:42 AM
Reading his book now. Never heard so much obvious logic turned into revolutionary revelation.
Never picked up a Dan Brown novel, have you?


I always got the sense that the dialog in WoL was written by multiple people, probably even including the actual map level designers. As for the actual SP mechanics itself, it doesn't really need fixing, that's something I've always enjoyed. I'd say if they were to fix anything it should be re-recording lines, fixing cinematics, and redoing missions & objectives. The pre-rendered cinematics are definitely not changing from their original vision, and we know those are crucial to the story.
So, you think that WoL, as it is, could have been made a good-great game by changing dialog and in-game cinematics?

How much of the missions/objectives would they have to change? Not counting that one with the mothership, obviously.

I realize that this has been covered before, maybe, but it's been buried beneath months of back and forth squabbling over just how bad the WoL story really was. :rolleyes:

Alar
11-15-2012, 04:50 AM
I kind of agree with Gradius, though... the campaign was fun. Gimmicks can be fun.

Gradius
11-15-2012, 08:35 AM
So, you think that WoL, as it is, could have been made a good-great game by changing dialog and in-game cinematics?
Nah, I'm just saying that the pre-rendered cinematics are not as easy to change as dialog once they get into development. Or at least, I thought I read an interview which said that.

TheEconomist
11-15-2012, 11:44 AM
Never picked up a Dan Brown novel, have you?

No, although that's close but loses since its still fiction.

Anyone whose spent anytime in a field that requires you to ignore the ignorance of the masses already knows everything Nate Silver is saying instinctively.

Twilice
11-16-2012, 05:23 AM
2/3 of the original price for an expansion? Sounds reasonable enough.

If you get it from retails it will be less than 40$.

DemolitionSquid
11-16-2012, 03:37 PM
I'm just so... disillusioned with games these days. So many things that should have been AAA day-1 buys only turned out to be terribleh. The only major game companies I can trust to deliver cohesive, well thought, well written, and fun games anymore are Valve and Bethesda :(

TheEconomist
11-16-2012, 04:07 PM
No Bioware bruh?

DemolitionSquid
11-16-2012, 05:35 PM
No Bioware bruh?

After the massive disappointments of Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3, and SWTOR? BiowEAr is dead to me.

TheEconomist
11-16-2012, 05:39 PM
SWTOR and DA2, sure? But ME3 wasn't that bad :D

Hawki
11-16-2012, 06:11 PM
Chipping in for what it's worth:

-Bethesda: Only played a bit of Fallout 3, can't really comment on them widely.

-Valve: Only familiar with the Portal games which were excellent. Might have gotten interested in Stars of Blood too, provided it had a better name at release.:(

-Bioware: Kind of on the fence. Mass Effect 3 isn't the only letdown I've experienced from them, but at least they patched it up. More concerned about Mass Effect 4 though, or whatever it ends up being called, for various reasons. Interested in Dragon Age III though, to see what the consensus will be.

Gradius
11-16-2012, 06:14 PM
ME3 was fantastic. The botched ending does not invalidate the rest of the game, or the rest of the series. Some great sci-fi's seem to have a problem with endings. BSG had an ending just as bad, if not worse, and yet it's one of my favorite sci-fis.

Hawki
11-16-2012, 06:25 PM
ME3 was fantastic. The botched ending does not invalidate the rest of the game, or the rest of the series. Some great sci-fi's seem to have a problem with endings. BSG had an ending just as bad, if not worse, and yet it's one of my favorite sci-fis.

I remember reading/hearing that the ending of any story is the hardest to write, at least under the 4-stage story paradigm. Personally always found the ending the easiest to write, but...

Anyway, I think ME3's original ending had a bit more invalidation than you give it (dis)credit for, in that none of our choices were reflected bar a choice of colour. But again, I'll forgive Bioware due to the extended cut (mostly). ME4 I think is the riskier move. If it's a sequel, it runs the risk of invalidation. If it's a prequel, there's a comparatively limited timeframe to work with since I think it was confirmed the protagonist would be human.

As for BSG, I can forgive the ending. Partly because season 4 was clearly feeling the pinch of the writer's guild strike (at least, that's the impression I got), partly because when "acts of God" are a legitimate plot point in the series, the decision made by the Colonials doesn't seem far fetched. And I'd have rather got a concrete ending rather than running the risk of a canceled season 5.

DemolitionSquid
11-16-2012, 06:30 PM
1. Telling the player their choices will matter and then not having them matter is called lying.

2. Denying Indoctrination Theory when the evidence and logic for it is overwhelming, just to hide incompetence at conveying the truth originally, is insulting and shows you think lowly of your fans.

3. Crapping on the physics on lore of the universe created destroys suspension of disbelief and narrative cohesion.

ME3's ending was a farce and Bioware should be ashamed.

Pr0nogo
11-16-2012, 06:47 PM
WoL did the same thing that ME3 did with it's ending... Tosh/Nova or Protoss/Doctor, anyone?

Bioware's been swallowed by EA, though they weren't very good at any other point anyways.

Valve is okay. They don't get anything done on any sort of dependable time scale, but at least they have some sense of quality assurance while Blizzard doesn't.

LOL @ Bethesda, though. They're pretty horrible as a developer. All the recent Elder Scrolls games (meaning three of them) were horrid.

TheEconomist
11-16-2012, 06:54 PM
ME3 was fantastic. The botched ending does not invalidate the rest of the game, or the rest of the series. Some great sci-fi's seem to have a problem with endings. BSG had an ending just as bad, if not worse, and yet it's one of my favorite sci-fis.

I wonder if, some day, in the distant future in a different dimension, we'll ever disagree on something :D

Mass Effect 3 was a great game. Certainly more action-oriented and lost some RP elements, but, still, a AAA+ game in every way.


Chipping in for what it's worth:

-Bethesda: Only played a bit of Fallout 3, can't really comment on them widely.

-Valve: Only familiar with the Portal games which were excellent. Might have gotten interested in Stars of Blood too, provided it had a better name at release.:(

-Bioware: Kind of on the fence. Mass Effect 3 isn't the only letdown I've experienced from them, but at least they patched it up. More concerned about Mass Effect 4 though, or whatever it ends up being called, for various reasons. Interested in Dragon Age III though, to see what the consensus will be.

95% of this post is utterly useless, even given the already low standards of an internet opinion.

Hawki
11-16-2012, 06:55 PM
WoL did the same thing that ME3 did with it's ending... Tosh/Nova or Protoss/Doctor, anyone?

At least with WoL we got different cutscenes and aftermath dialogue/units with those options, not to mention the promise of reflective dialogue in HotS. "Promise" is also the key word. Bioware made promises that it didn't deliver on. With WoL, there was no prior promise to break.


LOL @ Bethesda, though. They're pretty horrible as a developer. All the recent Elder Scrolls games (meaning three of them) were horrid.

And the ones before that?

DemolitionSquid
11-16-2012, 07:08 PM
LOL @ Bethesda, though. They're pretty horrible as a developer. All the recent Elder Scrolls games (meaning three of them) were horrid.

Since everything you say is a lie, I know, they were fantastic weren't they? I'm literally playing Skyrim right now, exploring new player made mod content cause Bethesda acctually lets players do that kind of thing to enhance the experience. Can't wait for Dragonborn :D

Pr0nogo
11-16-2012, 07:28 PM
At least with WoL we got different cutscenes and aftermath dialogue/units with those options, not to mention the promise of reflective dialogue in HotS. "Promise" is also the key word. Bioware made promises that it didn't deliver on. With WoL, there was no prior promise to break.

No, the 'canon' choices are Tosh and Doctor.


And the ones before that?

Didn't play, can't comment.

Hawki
11-16-2012, 07:32 PM
No, the 'canon' choices are Tosh and Doctor.

I know. But going by an interview awhile back, there's still the option of going down the b canon route in individual playthroughs. Kind of like Wing Commander or Knights of the Old Republic. Canon is solidified, but players can entertain alternatives if they want.

Turalyon
11-16-2012, 10:02 PM
I'm just so... disillusioned with games these days. So many things that should have been AAA day-1 buys only turned out to be terribleh. The only major game companies I can trust to deliver cohesive, well thought, well written, and fun games anymore are Valve and Bethesda :(

I'd suggest looking elsewhere aside from the major game companies for your fix then. Look to CD Projekt RED for example. Their Witcher games are fantastic in the "cohesive, well thought and well written" department. Bring on Cyberpunk 2077!

TheEconomist
11-16-2012, 11:05 PM
You really think a hardcore gamer d00d like Squibb hasn't herd about The Witcher?

If you're going to recommend he look outside the usual, then indie games are the only correct answer.

DemolitionSquid
11-16-2012, 11:30 PM
I was specifically talking about major brand companies, thus why I used the word major. Obviously their are lots of smaller indie companies that are producing quality games. Unfortunately they're rarely to my tastes.

Jabber Wookie
11-16-2012, 11:55 PM
I'd suggest looking elsewhere aside from the major game companies for your fix then. Look to CD Projekt RED for example. Their Witcher games are fantastic in the "cohesive, well thought and well written" department. Bring on Cyberpunk 2077!

I actually found the Witcher games to be a bit of a letdown. Don't get me wrong, they were enjoyable and had better dialogue and writing than most blizzard games, but were maybe overhyped for me. If I went into playing them without so much praise from gamers and critics I might have thought they were better.

Turalyon
11-17-2012, 12:26 AM
Unfortunately they're rarely to my tastes.

Huh, that's something mighty specific you're looking for. Something from a major company that not only meets your standards for "literature" and that also meets your standards for taste. Good luck on your search.


I actually found the Witcher games to be a bit of a letdown. Don't get me wrong, they were enjoyable and had better dialogue and writing than most blizzard games, but were maybe overhyped for me.

I didn't say it was necessarily better than anything else. The Squid wanted something "cohesive, well-thought and well-written" and tastes aside, The Witcher games fit that bill quite nicely. Besides, you've just admitted that it has better dialogue and writing - isn't this a qualifier for something "cohesive, well-thought and well-written"?


If I went into playing them without so much praise from gamers and critics I might have thought they were better.

I often think the same thing with WoL. On second thought, I still would have come to the same conclusion about WoL's writing no matter what.

DemolitionSquid
11-17-2012, 10:08 AM
Huh, that's something mighty specific you're looking for. Something from a major company that not only meets your standards for "literature" and that also meets your standards for taste. Good luck on your search.

Clearly I need that luck.

SebiAlex
11-18-2012, 01:32 AM
Man, sci-fi is lacking of late. Movies suck, there's nothing on tv, barely any games. I need my fix :P

RetlocLive
11-18-2012, 01:36 AM
Well...there was Disney buying the rights to Star Wars...even back in March was the whole controversy surrounding Mass Effect 3. I wouldn't exactly call that lacking.

Hawki
11-18-2012, 02:33 AM
The controversy wasn't of the good kind though. And Star Wars isn't sci-fi, it's space fantasy or science-fantasy.;)

Kimera757
11-18-2012, 09:14 AM
If Star Wars is science fantasy, so is StarCraft. Even if the science or technology is consistent, it's unrealistic. (You could probably say that about any setting with faster-than-light travel, unless it's written by Pohl.) And that's before you have genetic whirlwinds (zerg) or powerful brain aliens (protoss). The Khala even seems like the Light Side of the force, with the Nerazim favoring the Dark Side. (Fortunately, neither are good or evil.)

TheEconomist
11-18-2012, 09:15 AM
The controversy wasn't of the good kind though. And Star Wars isn't sci-fi, it's space fantasy or science-fantasy.;)

Actually, it most closely resembles space opera. A fanfic author should know this.


Man, sci-fi is lacking of late. Movies suck, there's nothing on tv, barely any games. I need my fix :P

So read a book?

Gradius
11-18-2012, 09:58 AM
Man, sci-fi is lacking of late. Movies suck, there's nothing on tv, barely any games. I need my fix :P
We need something like firefly, bsg, or stargate. Though, this is coming out:

Qj50xJhWdcM


It's hard, because sci-fi requires a lot of expensive CGI as opposed to some dumb reality TV show which will net 100x as many viewers.

SebiAlex
11-18-2012, 10:47 AM
So read a book?

Any suggestions of good sci-fi books? The only ones I've read are: the hyperion series, ender's game and I started neuromancer. I also read Nova and the Dark Templar Saga in the SC universe.

Right now I'm finishing up the Mistborn trilogy, but that's fantasy.


We need something like firefly, bsg, or stargate. Though, this is coming out:


I saw the first two episodes. It's pretty good, except for the lens flare overkill.

TheEconomist
11-18-2012, 11:58 AM
Based on your previous reads, I recommend:

Leviathan Wakes
Revelation Space
Dune
Altered Carbon

I'll give you more if you need some, but those seem to match your readings the best.

topsecret221
11-18-2012, 12:29 PM
I would like to recommend Eon, by Greg Bear.

I don't read nearly as much as I used to, so I haven't read any of those (though most of them have been recommended to me)

DemolitionSquid
11-18-2012, 12:57 PM
If anyone's looking for sci-fi to read, I recommend the Starfire series by David Webber & Steve White. Its kind of like Star Trek with navel warfare. A far more realistic view on future technology and politics. There's no warp drive, and instead they use natural random wormholes to travel between colonies. The wormholes also serve as strategic staging and buffer zones during war. Fleets of ships maneuver and fire at long range, calculating the future position of their enemy a light year away so they can aim ahead of time.

Starfire series chronologically
Crusade
In Death Ground
The Shiva Option
Insurrection
Exodus
Extremis

TheEconomist
11-18-2012, 01:01 PM
If you're going to go that route then nothing beats Peter F. Hamilton although you need the patience of monk to read his books.

Quirel
11-19-2012, 01:55 AM
Try K.J. Parker's "Engineer Trilogy".
It's science fiction, even if it does have a medieval setting. And it's pretty darn good.

And if you can power your way through Eon, try "The Faded Sun Trilogy".

SebiAlex
11-19-2012, 03:01 AM
Thanks everyone, I'll give them a look. They should keep me entertained for a while.

I did in fact read Dune some 8 years ago. Completely forgot. Oh and the first 2 books of the Foundation series by Asimov; haven't finished the series.

As a side note, fantasy wise: Wheel of Time, Song of Ice and Fire (way before the HBO series), Mistborn.

I recently got into the Master and Commander series (1800's historical naval warfare, 20+ books in that one). So far I like it, I'll see how it goes.

Haven't done as much reading as I wanted for the last 4 years because of university, but now that I'm done, I'll definitely pick up the pace.

Quirel
11-19-2012, 03:51 AM
Actually, it most closely resembles space opera. A fanfic author should know this.
Well, yes, but I think that the presence of an all-powerful unifying force, the users of which are essentially demigods and sorcerers (I.E: Magic), pushes Star Wars from the realm of "Science Fiction" firmly into the realm of "Fantasy".

Hawki
11-19-2012, 04:38 AM
Actually, it most closely resembles space opera. A fanfic author should know this.

Star Wars as a whole could fit under the "space opera" definition, but space opera is a sub-genre. It could apply as a sub-genre of the ones I listed too.


We need something like firefly, bsg, or stargate. Though, this is coming out:

Would be nice, but I think "space sci-fi" had its heyday in the 1990s, and was definately winding down in the 2000s. It'll be quite awhile IMO before it can make a comeback. And as for Blood and Chrome...I can't comment. You can blame Machinima's region locking for that.:(

DemolitionSquid
11-19-2012, 06:38 AM
Personally I've always wondered how AvP never got a TV series. There's so many viable Colonial Marines storylines in the Dark Horse comics to take from to easily produce episodic content. With simple CGI the wealth of leftover props and costumes, I think a series set in the Weyland-Yutani universe would be very viable. Thanks to Game Of Thrones and the like, gory Chestburster scenes should be fine on HBO.

TheEconomist
11-19-2012, 09:48 AM
Well, yes, but I think that the presence of an all-powerful unifying force, the users of which are essentially demigods and sorcerers (I.E: Magic), pushes Star Wars from the realm of "Science Fiction" firmly into the realm of "Fantasy".

Most space operas epics I've read have some form of intelligent being giving special powers to its followers. The only difference is that the Force is of the universe not of a particular being or race of beings. That's not that far of a stretch. Sure, you'd be right in saying its fantasy, but its still closer to space opera given the 1000000000s of other similarities it has with space opera. Space opera is basically just fantasy science fiction since the heroes in space opera usually are waaaay more powerful and skilled than they should be, just like fantasy. It just stretches reality a bit less than straight up fantasy.

But, really, who the hell cares? Worst debate topic ever. I must write ten walls'o'text in the next month just to make up for this waste of time.

@Hawki: Why would you bother to note that Star Wars is fantasy without taking the next step and being more specific. It's obvious that Star Wars has fantasy elements. It's like saying something is not white instead of saying its red.

Alar
11-19-2012, 10:18 AM
Honor Harrington is a space opera series and they don't really have super powers. The closest thing to it that they have art prosthetic limbs that are pretty good. She also has the luck of the gods.

Triceron
11-19-2012, 11:11 AM
Ender's Game movie 2013, so can't wait. Really hope it doesn't disappoint.

TheEconomist
11-19-2012, 12:33 PM
Honor Harrington is a space opera series and they don't really have super powers. The closest thing to it that they have art prosthetic limbs that are pretty good. She also has the luck of the gods.

The First Law series is fantasy and doesn't have much magic ......................................

Quirel
11-19-2012, 12:53 PM
Personally I've always wondered how AvP never got a TV series. There's so many viable Colonial Marines storylines in the Dark Horse comics to take from to easily produce episodic content. With simple CGI the wealth of leftover props and costumes, I think a series set in the Weyland-Yutani universe would be very viable. Thanks to Game Of Thrones and the like, gory Chestburster scenes should be fine on HBO.
It can't appear on HBO, because Alien and Predator are owned by Fox. And they utterly loathe good programming.

But how many seasons do you think you could get out of the Dark Horse comics? Just out of curiosity.

DemolitionSquid
11-19-2012, 02:29 PM
It can't appear on HBO, because Alien and Predator are owned by Fox. And they utterly loathe good programming.

But how many seasons do you think you could get out of the Dark Horse comics? Just out of curiosity.

4 seasons, minimum. I have all of the DH Aliens and Predator comics. Ignoring the stupid and implausible royal jelly/zeno zip stuff, there's plenty of content to take from that's directly related to the movies. Android ethics and evolutions, alien genetic manipulation, alien cult worshipping and the subsequent infestation of earth, conflicts between the UNSC colonial marines and weyland-yutani forces, later season expansion of the new Promethus and Engineer/space jockey information. I can provide a base layout for you if you wish.

Also, HBO was just an example.

Hawki
11-20-2012, 03:04 AM
Personally I've always wondered how AvP never got a TV series. There's so many viable Colonial Marines storylines in the Dark Horse comics to take from to easily produce episodic content. With simple CGI the wealth of leftover props and costumes, I think a series set in the Weyland-Yutani universe would be very viable. Thanks to Game Of Thrones and the like, gory Chestburster scenes should be fine on HBO.

What happened the last time a film series that Cameron was involved in got small screen treatment aside, the idea of a Xenopedia (blanket term for the three settings) tv series...well, it could work. You make a good point. Personally I think that other eras of the setting could do with more fleshing out though, as the "Colonial Marines era" (pretty much from 2179 at the latest to some nebulous point in the 23rd century...you can probably define it better than I can) has been done to death. I'd like to see other areas of the timeline revisited.

Still, if you have an idea for how a tv series could play out via your series offer, I wouldn't mind a glance, if only to get some easy insight into EU elements, my EU collection for the series being quite small.


@Hawki: Why would you bother to note that Star Wars is fantasy without taking the next step and being more specific. It's obvious that Star Wars has fantasy elements. It's like saying something is not white instead of saying its red.

Of course Star Wars has fantasy elements. Question is whether they define it.

DemolitionSquid
11-20-2012, 02:39 PM
Here's my basic premise. We completely forget Alien: Resurrection was ever made. Everyone loves the USCMC (United States Colonial Marine Corps), so much like in Aliens we're following a squad of Colonial Marines. The series starts several years after Alien3 (Both Aliens and Alien3 took place in 2178-2180). So we'll say 2185. The general public is still completely ignorant about anything Alien/Predator/Engineer related. Weyland-Yutani is focused on capturing, breeding, and experimenting with xenomorphs. They're also still producing androids. The USCMC obviously knows about the alien threat, but only at the highest levels, and under the influence of Weyland-Yutani. The USCMC has the most to gain from WY's biological warfare division and is subsequently funding it. This just clarifies a lot about how WY was about to get their staff and androids into the ranks of the USCMC. It also gives us room to play with all the needed cliches.

So we start with a WY orbital lab going boom. As usual, the xenomorphs they were experimenting on escaped and the place had to go into quarantine. Eventually there was no choice for WY but to destroy the station and all the evidence of their stupid endeavors. They then try to cover it up with the help of the USCMC officials who are in on it, and the media. However, some debris remains and eventually finds its way to a USCMC general/admiral who's not a part of the WY conspiracy. Standard radiation testing to ensure it was safe for human exposure found strange readings, and further analysis determined there was organic material left over from an extraterrestrial source not on record. This general/admiral investigates and learns that, as usual, something foul is afoot in the USCMC. Thus, he sends his best covert force to another WY facility to see what they might recover. Only 1 or 2 come back, and they have very important news. He's forced to round up another squad and we're off on season one - to discover how far the WY conspiracy goes, and what WY is working on and achieving. We learn more about WY and their xenogenetics division. The season ends unveiling which officers are in bed with WY. Of course there will be the prerequisite fight scenes between the USCMC squad and WY forces, as well as xenomorphs escaping or being let loose in other facilities and extra-solar colonies.

Season 2 opens with the squad trying to take down WY and their USCMC financiers. There's increasing internal conflict in the USCMC as officials take sides. We're also introduced to the Alien Worshippers, a fanatical cult from the Earth Hive comic. For coherence, we'll have it started by a scientist working on the aliens at WY. As in Earth Hive, he gets a hologram of a Xenomorph and slowly gathers followers to worship the "purity" of the aliens form and nature. They then manage to sneak out a single Queen egg from WY and slowly breed a den of timebombs. At the end of season two, the squad has either killed or exposed the senior USCMC members supporting WY, but everyone is ignorant of the worshipper threat. The entire Earth is taken by surprise when hives of aggressive aliens start to pop up in random cities worldwide.

Season 3 picks up 6 months later, and now it gets crazy. The various Earth military forces are trying to stop the constant threat of Xenomorph hives. The alien cult lost control of their Gods long ago and the Aliens have infected much of South America and Asia where they had an easier time reproducing thanks to the environment and black market trafficking. There is constant conflict as zones are quarantined and cleansed, but the Aliens are always spreading because they can swim and infect sea life. We start seeing more alien breeds as the so-called "gene reflex" is explored by the infestation of different bipedal, quadrupedal, avian, and marine life (concept first explored in Alen3 with Runner birthed from dog/ox). We also see the Predators introduced. In AvP:R the Predator comes after the wreak of the sip from AvP, to cleanse and contain the xenomorphs in the town. In the same way, the Predators are still keeping track of Earth 200 years later and seeing the infestation decide its a perfect target for a mass hunting expedition. We get to witness the first USCMC vs. Predator ship battles and some Predaliens. The ragged USCMC squad we've been following discovers the data on the Prometheus project from 100 years before, and at the end of season 3 sets out to discover the origins of everything, and a way to save the Earth from the alien infection and the predators indiscriminate hunting.

Season 4 plot I'm still a bit vague on, but the way I would do it is I imagine the squad go to the planet from Prometheus, LV-223, and discover the new derelect, the crashed Prometheus, and the other Engineer ships filled with the goo urns. The follow in Shaw and Davids footsteps and meet with more hostile Engineers. They eventually discover a way to quickly exterminate large groups of Aliens from the Engineers, and somehow save the Earth from complete ruin, although there is significant rebuilding to be done.

Frankly, there's a massive amount of content to take from the comics.

Quirel
11-20-2012, 05:02 PM
Yes, but we have to treat Prometheus as if it actually exists? :(

DemolitionSquid
11-20-2012, 05:18 PM
Yes, but we have to treat Prometheus as if it actually exists? :(

As stated, season 4 I'm a bit more uncertain of in terms of the direction needed. The real selling point of the series is the Earth Hive stuff.

TheEconomist
11-20-2012, 05:52 PM
Okay, now I'm pissed off.

I've been trying to get you to write that much in debates about important topics for years.

DemolitionSquid
11-20-2012, 06:47 PM
Okay, now I'm pissed off.

I've been trying to get you to write that much in debates about important topics for years.

Importance is relative.

Triceron
11-20-2012, 07:00 PM
Slightly off topic, but looks like Mists of Pandaria will be $20 from various places for Black Friday sale. This is almost 2 months after its release. Every other expansion has had sales at least a year into it.

HOTS comes out in March, but would you think it'd go on sale soon after as well?

sandwich_bird
11-20-2012, 07:07 PM
Slightly off topic, but looks like Mists of Pandaria will be $20 from various places for Black Friday sale. This is almost 2 months after its release. Every other expansion has had sales at least a year into it.

HOTS comes out in March, but would you think it'd go on sale soon after as well?

Nah. Wow is different. It's more profitable to tempt old players to come back (and pay a sub) with sales like this than to keep the expansion at full price.

SC2 profit comes mostly from game sales.

Gradius
11-20-2012, 07:08 PM
WoL is 20 bucks now too. Had to buy another copy because my campaign is going to surpass their file size limits if I want voice-acting. That's why I'm not buying collector's edition. :P

Pr0nogo
11-20-2012, 07:36 PM
Slightly off topic

And the Alien rants and plots aren't?

Triceron
11-20-2012, 07:46 PM
WoL is 20 bucks now too. Had to buy another copy because my campaign is going to surpass their file size limits if I want voice-acting. That's why I'm not buying collector's edition. :P

They increased the mod and map sizes without publicly announcing it. I'm not sure how much space you needed, but I heard about this over in the mapster IRC when someone uploaded a mod larger than Xmb and it was confirmed by one of the blizzard guys that it was increased to like 100mb for a single map or mod I believe.

TheEconomist
11-20-2012, 08:17 PM
WoL is 20 bucks now too. Had to buy another copy because my campaign is going to surpass their file size limits if I want voice-acting. That's why I'm not buying collector's edition. :P

The greatest thing that has always pissed me off about SC2 has been its stupid editor limitations. It's all absolutely ridiculous.

Is there anyway you can use my storage, since I'm never going to use it?


Importance is relative.

I'd love to hear you argument for how a AvP TV series is more important than the future of human civilization.

DemolitionSquid
11-20-2012, 08:40 PM
I'd love to hear you argument for how a AvP TV series is more important than the future of human civilization.

Its a matter of scale. Humanity is corrupt, destructive, and will one day perish despite its best efforts. Our future is written a billion years from now. It is always more important to change what can be changed than to fret about what is certain.

TheEconomist
11-20-2012, 09:53 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SM7cpstxt2E/TTty_7Dte5I/AAAAAAAAAHg/XBM8dwLfNLs/s1600/Forever+alone.png

Humanity's really not that bad. You just have to learn to fit in. Johnny over here likes trains. Do you like trains?

Seriously though, economics and politics (the topics we were discussing) changes all the time. To justify your ignorance by saying nothing can be done is pathetic and proves that your gusto for social justice really only amounts to, "Keep me fed so I can game all day."

Pr0nogo
11-20-2012, 10:02 PM
"Keep me fed so I can game all day."

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3rv5kb/

DemolitionSquid
11-20-2012, 10:05 PM
You asked me to make an argument for a point. I did so.

Hawki
11-21-2012, 03:11 AM
Mostly replying to Squid. Appologies in advance for getting any EU facts wrong.


Here's my basic premise. We completely forget Alien: Resurrection was ever made.

Easier said than done.:(

Still, in your timeline, it's kind of a moot point. Far as I can tell, you can't have any elements of Resurrection until the Great Deletion sparks the catalyst for the transition to the timeframe.


Everyone loves the USCMC (United States Colonial Marine Corps),

Especially Apone.;)


so much like in Aliens we're following a squad of Colonial Marines. The series starts several years after Alien3 (Both Aliens and Alien3 took place in 2178-2180).

2179.




So we start with a WY orbital lab going boom. As usual, the xenomorphs they were experimenting on escaped and the place had to go into quarantine. Eventually there was no choice for WY but to destroy the station and all the evidence of their stupid endeavors. They then try to cover it up with the help of the USCMC officials who are in on it, and the media. However, some debris remains and eventually finds its way to a USCMC general/admiral who's not a part of the WY conspiracy. Standard radiation testing to ensure it was safe for human exposure found strange readings, and further analysis determined there was organic material left over from an extraterrestrial source not on record. This general/admiral investigates and learns that, as usual, something foul is afoot in the USCMC. Thus, he sends his best covert force to another WY facility to see what they might recover. Only 1 or 2 come back, and they have very important news. He's forced to round up another squad and we're off on season one - to discover how far the WY conspiracy goes, and what WY is working on and achieving. We learn more about WY and their xenogenetics division. The season ends unveiling which officers are in bed with WY. Of course there will be the prerequisite fight scenes between the USCMC squad and WY forces, as well as xenomorphs escaping or being let loose in other facilities and extra-solar colonies.

Okay premise. Have to wonder a bit though about the timeframe, in that even by 2209, WY still exerted influence over the USCMC.


Season 2 opens with the squad trying to take down WY and their USCMC financiers. There's increasing internal conflict in the USCMC as officials take sides. We're also introduced to the Alien Worshippers, a fanatical cult from the Earth Hive comic. For coherence, we'll have it started by a scientist working on the aliens at WY. As in Earth Hive, he gets a hologram of a Xenomorph and slowly gathers followers to worship the "purity" of the aliens form and nature. They then manage to sneak out a single Queen egg from WY and slowly breed a den of timebombs. At the end of season two, the squad has either killed or exposed the senior USCMC members supporting WY, but everyone is ignorant of the worshipper threat. The entire Earth is taken by surprise when hives of aggressive aliens start to pop up in random cities worldwide.

Could work.


Season 3 picks up 6 months later, and now it gets crazy. The various Earth military forces are trying to stop the constant threat of Xenomorph hives. The alien cult lost control of their Gods long ago and the Aliens have infected much of South America and Asia where they had an easier time reproducing thanks to the environment and black market trafficking. There is constant conflict as zones are quarantined and cleansed, but the Aliens are always spreading because they can swim and infect sea life. We start seeing more alien breeds as the so-called "gene reflex" is explored by the infestation of different bipedal, quadrupedal, avian, and marine life (concept first explored in Alen3 with Runner birthed from dog/ox). We also see the Predators introduced. In AvP:R the Predator comes after the wreak of the sip from AvP, to cleanse and contain the xenomorphs in the town. In the same way, the Predators are still keeping track of Earth 200 years later and seeing the infestation decide its a perfect target for a mass hunting expedition. We get to witness the first USCMC vs. Predator ship battles and some Predaliens. The ragged USCMC squad we've been following discovers the data on the Prometheus project from 100 years before, and at the end of season 3 sets out to discover the origins of everything, and a way to save the Earth from the alien infection and the predators indiscriminate hunting.

I'm kind of iffy about this. If this were a bona fide TV show, then my first question would be about the budget. As for yautja coming to Earth...well, the arcade game made a precedence for it, but could a USCMC ship really stand up to a yautja one? I'm no expert, but they were no match for them in AvP 3 (the game), and that occurred well after the timeframe you're suggesting.


Season 4 plot I'm still a bit vague on, but the way I would do it is I imagine the squad go to the planet from Prometheus, LV-223, and discover the new derelect, the crashed Prometheus, and the other Engineer ships filled with the goo urns. The follow in Shaw and Davids footsteps and meet with more hostile Engineers. They eventually discover a way to quickly exterminate large groups of Aliens from the Engineers, and somehow save the Earth from complete ruin, although there is significant rebuilding to be done.

Hmm...

While I'm no fan of Prometheus, I'd still be more inclined to know what Shaw and David were doing in this context rather than the marines following them. And despite what you said, such an idea could lead into the events for Resurrection possibly, considering that the mala'lak had a deal with the USM. Hey, maybe it can explain why they look so different between the film and comics/novels.


Yes, but we have to treat Prometheus as if it actually exists? :(

Considering that it's material is said to be relevant to Colonial Marines...pretty much. Still, it doesn't bug me too much. I have more problems with the film itself than the lore surrounding it (Engineer/Space Jockey retcons aside).

DemolitionSquid
11-21-2012, 01:54 PM
The problem with Resurrection is that Aliens didn't infest earth. Humanity destroyed it. If you go with the Earth Hive story there's no possible way to tie it into Resurrection. The show idea is to take what works from the comics and tie it into the other movies as best as possible.

Hawki
11-22-2012, 02:41 AM
Resurrection showed/conveyed that Earth was in a bad state, but was the cause ever confirmed (apart from the Lacerta Plague mention)? There's plenty of time for Earth to recover from xenomorph infestation only for humanity to screw it up again. Given the USM's cranial capacity, I wouldn't be too surprised.