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View Full Version : Old Oracle Idea Is New Again - Because I'm Bored



DemolitionSquid
09-28-2012, 10:54 PM
Here's an oldie:

Problem: Entomb is a micro-less ability. Its not actively engaging. Also, stopping mining temporarily will never be as powerful as outright killing workers. Entomb gets worse as the enemy gets stronger units/static defense to kill the Mineral Shields and Oracle.

Solution: Scrap Entomb. Give Oracle channeled attack that only targets Minerals, "Mineral Siphon" and actively mines said minerals. It attacks 1 patch at a time, and that patch cannot be mined by workers. Oracle mines the patch but the player does not accumulate wealth. Oracle can be microed in and out of base like a Banshee, Mutalisk, or Phoenix to take small chunks of minerals while dodging defenses.

Uses: Oracle can Siphon from any patch at any time: in the enemy's main, natural, 3rd, etc. If used in main, can directly slow down mining at start of game by removing Worker access to patch (like Entomb), but also creates long-term problem of less minerals in main, forcing earlier and inconvenient expansion timing. If used preemptively in unoccupied 3rd, 4th bases, can again cause longer term damage by making certain expansions less desirable to take due to decreased mineral wealth, unless the enemy actively takes undesirable positioning to defend said future expansions.

Alar
09-29-2012, 05:49 AM
That would turn it into, essentially, an aerial-based worker that can 'steal' minerals away from other people. If that were to happen, I'd like to see some sort of buff to its defenses, or a nerf in its price. A single mineral patch being zapped (albeit indefinitely until killed or run off) probably isn't a big enough drain on an enemy's economy to justify making one if that's its primary use.

Pr0nogo
09-29-2012, 12:08 PM
The problem is making it a highly-used unit would require a Stargate rush. I can't see it being too effective mid- or late-game, regardless of what abilities it has.

flak4321
10-02-2012, 03:17 PM
The big reason it was speed nerfed and health buffed was to give players a chance to snipe it. As it was, it was too low on hp for static D and too fast for mobile D, sort of like the warp prism was viewed for a while. Now you have a setup that will require the same micro needed for prisms, albeit in much shorter duration because you're not dropping anything you have to reload.

I can see plenty of mid and late game uses for entomb. The question is really, "should i make 1 or 2 oracles to entomb my enemy's mining bases for however long or should I use the pop space for added deathball size?" A lot of the reason the mid and late game doesn't see a lot of oracle usage isn't because the unit has no uses, it's because the money is better spent elsewhere, due to the high probability of dueling deathballs.

Should an opportunity arise late game to say entomb the last enemy held mining area (twice, as a fully charge Oracle can entomb twice), I would have to consider it. The key to this would be not sacrificing your early oracle so that you didn't have to reinvest in it.

Triceron
10-04-2012, 02:51 PM
If I could attack minerals, I wouldn't do it in their base and rather attack their 2nd and 3rd expansion spots, screwing their mid/late game with only a handful of oracles. They wouldn't know it was happening unless they scouted, and by the time they can react it's too late.

It screws up the meta game IMO, because it's not about expanding faster, it's about not being screwed by a late-game scenario vs Protoss. You're going to be pushed for a quick win against Toss. If they play defensively and wait things out, you're going to run out of resources quicker.

DemolitionSquid
10-07-2012, 02:04 PM
Ok, so Blizzard added in Void Siphon as a ridiculously underpowered and pretty much worthless version of this topic's "Mineral Siphon" suggestion. At least it shows Blizzard is listening to the community so they can adequately piss us all right the fuck off.

So, here's another idea: Replace Entomb with the Mothership's old Time Bomb.

- Same effect as Entomb of lowering enemy income rate if used in mineral line
- More options to use Time Bomb outside harassment, making Oracle a more solid unit in general

Thoughts?

Todie
10-09-2012, 10:48 AM
The problem with this idea - assuming i have understood it correctly - is thata mode of harassment that rellies on removing minable minerals is extremly indirect in nature; much like "offensively" ladnding mules to mine the enemies minerals.

... the ramafication of such harassment are ONLY felt on the more or less extreme long-term, making it a very far-fetched endeavour to incorporate the calcualted effects of this harassment into any short-mid term tacical/strategical scheme....


Timebomb as eco-harass and battle-utility combined? I like it!

problem is probably thatit would need a significant effect/duration to be effective in the first role, making it potentially broken in its second role. it would be hard to balance it in a way that made both uses plausible.

Pr0nogo
10-09-2012, 12:05 PM
Just make it slow both mining speed and movement speed.

mr. peasant
10-09-2012, 03:01 PM
Just make it slow both mining speed and movement speed.

I think what Todie is trying to say is that slow lasting for something like 15 seconds might not present as a major economic blow when used on workers but when used in combat might be potentially too powerful.


But on the other hand, what if it affected build time as well? So that buildings being constructed as well as units being produced were slowed, or perhaps even halted altogether. Methinks it would be a pretty effective, not to mention unique, form of harassment to mess with the opponent's timing and build order.

Todie
10-09-2012, 04:00 PM
these ideas have potential for sure, and yes - making it slow mining speed would help make it effective as harassment without overpowering it in battle.

i just fear timebomb may get stuck in the closet for undisclosed and potentially arbitrary reasons; it was never very clear why it was removed in WoL beta to begin with, but it does feel like that removal had more to do with the mothership than with the ability.

This idea-cluster about timebomb-variations on the oracle is strong enough to warrant lifting to other places if possible. be it BNet official, TL or reddit. Its hard to get enough momentum for it to be noticed though.

Todie
10-24-2012, 04:46 PM
1. Revelation is same as before.

2. Pulsar Beam - Passive anti structure ability that deals 20 damage per second. Drains 2 energy per second while channeling. Auto-cast on.

We feel that Pulsar Beam is better as a core harassing ability compared to Entomb. This ability makes better use of the unit's main traits of fast mobility + low durability, and doesn't have Entomb's biggest issue of forcing almost the whole army to stay at the mineral line.

Not only that, we feel this ability has a much greater skill differentiation depending on how well the ability is used. Entombs, no matter who uses them, had pretty much the same effect. Whereas Pulsar Beam will greatly reward players who are able to pay close attention and not lose the Oracles while quickly moving around all over the place in order to harass the opponent's base.

3. Time Warp - Creates a warp field at the target location that reduces enemy ground units' movement speed by 50%

We were aiming for a spell that gets us two main things with this last spell. One was something players can use in combination with Pulsar Beam when harassing the opponent's base. Second was something Protoss players can use in combination with their army. We feel this ability meets both requirements.

One thing we're discussing with Time Warp is if it should also be a time altering spell for timed life units as well. In this scenario, it would have an additional component that speeds up the timer on timed life units such as locusts, infested terrans, or mules.

Our current plan is to patch in the initial ability as fast as possible, and continue discussing/gathering feedback regarding the second component.

Oracle now feels like a unit that you build a few of and harass throughout the course of the whole game. Please let us know your thoughts and when the Oracle patch goes out, please take your time to play with it. Thanks~


well fuck me sideways if that isnt pretty damn fucking close to what we were talking about above here. let us rejoice! the oracle is becoming glorious!

Cotcan
10-25-2012, 12:01 AM
Perhaps blizzard is looking here for ideas. I'm not a fan of a drain mineral field ability, or the entomb ability. I think either slowing the workers or killing them is the best harass, and the most effective harass.