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DemolitionSquid
09-17-2012, 05:47 PM
Idea extracted from the Viking Haywire Missile thread:


Attaching any unit with Haywire Missile will grant that unit an anti-mechanic role. It would be a pain in the ass to balance, despite its initial role. The main reason is that you now have to set your priorities on what you want the unit to do best and when. There is also a thin line between being OP and having one of the attacks being underpowered.

The problem arises when you try to balance the unit through a single role in a single interval of time, while it still has both of its attacks and other attributes. That was the main problem with the Warhound. The Warhound is overpowered vs mechanical units and good vs regular ground units. It is also a tanky unit with high DPS and the ability of being healed. Basically, anything that crawls or walks will have to deal with its absurd amount of power.

We saw no mayor nerf of the Warhound, but there was still this small nerf to its normal attack. This small nerf reduced its damage during the early game, but it was still able to deal high end game DPS. If we continue to reduce this damage output, the early game of the Warhound becomes weaker and weaker. Eventually we might see that the Warhound is UP during the early game, but still OP during the late game. Reducing it's HP or the damage output of Haywire would show the same results. The Warhound is way much more powerful in a 200/200 scenario. It's design may be compared to mass roaches. Even going for air will get your base killed. Nerfing it's supply would give us a OP early game Warhound and a UP late game Warhound. In it's current state the unit is designed to be broken unless the proper: normal damage, HM damage, hp, supply, heal, upgrades, cost and armor ratio is found. Other factors might help, like adding 50 energy as a weakness vs HT or deactivate under EMP, but the main idea is that the Warhound is quite hard to balance because of its two overlapping attacks.


Brilliant. Make it energy based.

Right now, Haywire works exactly like Zealot Charge. As long as an enemy unit is in range, it will fire every 6 seconds as autocast. What if, instead, it was just a regular energy using ability instead of a passive cooldown. By simply limiting how many times it can be used in battle like this, it lets Protoss and other Terran players have a chance to come back later in the battle, or use micro to lure out the missiles before battle. Six seconds isn't much of a vulnerable window to make use of. But the X seconds it could take to charge up another energy Haywire definitely is.

The most intriguing part is it can still be autocast. A hybrid energy/autocast ability isn't something we currently have. Turn autocast on, and it expends its shots every 6 seconds, up to X maximum because of energy. Or turn it off, and the player can decide when they want to use it.

As usual, post your thoughts and vote.

Kimera757
09-17-2012, 06:37 PM
I love this idea.

StarCraft: Ghost was going to let light infantry engineers attach turrets to vehicles, making them temporarily more powerful.

I believe these turrets were anti-infantry, so you could attach one to a unit that was good at killing vehicles and make it good at killing infantry and zerglings too.

Very early zerg in StarCraft II could attach temporary weapons to buildings (and the mothership core can temporarily give itself a weapon).

I think the biggest issue is the hit point value of the weapon-toting unit. If you attach it to a thor or ultralisk (can you do that in a team game?!) it'll be difficult for an enemy to kill the buffed unit. Although that's not necessarily a bad thing. A high templar or ghost could sap that energy (possibly, unless it has a different energy bar than, say, a battlecruiser) opening yet another tactic.

topsecret221
09-17-2012, 08:52 PM
Isn't... Isn't medivac healing autocast?

Not bashing the idea, it would be a nice way to save the ability. The only problem is making the ability more fun to watch (A-moving isn't too fun to spectate. That's why no one watches tourney's with Gold players :D) and implement it in a way that makes it less gimmicky.

DemolitionSquid
09-17-2012, 08:58 PM
Isn't... Isn't medivac healing autocast?

Not bashing the idea, it would be a nice way to save the ability. The only problem is making the ability more fun to watch (A-moving isn't too fun to spectate. That's why no one watches tourney's with Gold players :D) and implement it in a way that makes it less gimmicky.

Good point, I forgot about Medevac healing. Nice catch. Blade and my's idea would work exactly like that. The "fun" part would be the player using it strategically, and the opponent attempting to lure out Haywires, just as they already do with Storm.

Rake
09-18-2012, 04:54 AM
I would suggest having a mana based but tagetable missile with optional auto attack (as described) that can do a very low attack to anything with a bonus to mechanical.

We would see pro-players targeting immortals or seige tanks wheras a worse player would waste damage on zealots or marines.

When I say a low attack, I mean something like 1 marine round.

Everything else, of course, would be subject to balance.

flak4321
09-18-2012, 01:07 PM
Intriguing...

sandwich_bird
09-18-2012, 02:39 PM
As long as it can be auto-cast, I'm fine with it. The reason why they put the ability like it was in the first place was because Terran players already have way too many stuff to take care of, especially in mech play.

horror
09-19-2012, 03:16 AM
edit: i had an idea but it was flawed

Alar
09-19-2012, 10:22 PM
I ahgwee. Making it a potential auto-cast energy-based attack would be neat.

evillesh
09-27-2012, 08:21 AM
I'm actually glad that they've removed Warhound from the game. Ugly design and pretty stupid concept in my opinion.

Pr0nogo
09-27-2012, 11:09 AM
Most of their units are.