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View Full Version : Warhound Hypothesis: No Purpose in TvZ



DemolitionSquid
06-09-2012, 05:22 PM
Warhound

Costs
Minerals: 150
Vespene: 75
Supply: 2
Time: 45

Stats
Health: 220
Armor: 1
GtG Damage: 23
Range: 7
Weapon Speed: 1.3
Movement Speed: 2.81

Abilities
Haywire Missile
Cooldown: 6, autocast
Blasts target ground mechanical unit, dealing 30 damage

Someone please tell me I'm wrong, but it appears that there is no reason to build Warhounds in TvZ. Ever. Zerg have no mechanical units, making the Haywire Missile passive ability useless. The Warhound has no anti-air attack, so it cannot help out versus Mutaballs, Brood Lords, or Vipers. It does have a high but slow regular attack, that might help against Roach or Ultralisk centric play. However, I believe the clearly more versatile Widow Mine can deal with Roaches more effectively. Also, the Thor is still in the game unchanged. Unless you're willing to pump out Warhounds in preparation for Ultralisks because you can't tech switch fast enough to Marauders from your new Factory heavy play, I honestly see no viable purpose for this new unit.

Is my analysis completely off base, or am I not alone in my worry? Poll and comments please!

phazonjunkie
06-09-2012, 06:35 PM
I thought you could only build one Thor now, when did this change?

If Thor production is the same as in WoL, why is the Warhound even neccessary? Just give the haywire missile to the Thor.

Oh, and as regards your question original question. No I don't think it's a necessarily a problem, as BW had units/abilities that didn't see much use in specific matchups. An annoyance maybe but not a serious problem.

DemolitionSquid
06-09-2012, 07:15 PM
I thought you could only build one Thor now, when did this change?

If Thor production is the same as in WoL, why is the Warhound even neccessary? Just give the haywire missile to the Thor.

Oh, and as regards your question original question. No I don't think it's a necessarily a problem, as BW had units/abilities that didn't see much use in specific matchups. An annoyance maybe but not a serious problem.

Super Thor isn't in at MLG, just regular, so yeah I'm wondering the same thing you are.

My whole issue here is, every other unit has at least some reason to built in every matchup even once in a blue moon. Carriers, BC's, Reapers, whatever. They're still viable in some state with some strategy. But i can literally see no possible reason to ever build a Warhound in TvZ and that really bothers me.

Kimera757
06-09-2012, 08:15 PM
I voted for the 1st, but it's not entirely bad, since the warhound's basic stats seem pretty decent. It does high damage, and has lots of hit points. It's like a super-marauder, and those are pretty decent against some zerg units (eg roaches). Having said that, if it's just a marauder plus, perhaps marauders should just get a haywire missile upgrade. (Like the marauder needs more power...)

phazonjunkie
06-09-2012, 08:55 PM
As I mentioned before, the Terran arsenal is already pretty solid, with no glaring gaps in it's arsenal. I don't truly see a need for more units. Abilities or a new defensive structure maybe, but their tech tree is pretty bloated.

Like Kimera mentioned, the Warhound (at least in it's current form) is just a bigger, stronger marauder, it doesn't do anything the marauder can't reasonably do (or conceivably do with some tweaking/buffing).

And the battle helion, basically just the campaign firebat in disguise.

One of the problems is Blizzard trying so desperately to avoid cutting units at all cost. If they were more willing to do that, then overlap, or units with no discernible purpose in some match ups wouldn't be a problem. Just look at the Protoss. The loss of the Carrrier, even though 'iconic' opened up the floogates in terms of possibilities for protoss air.

DemolitionSquid
06-09-2012, 09:05 PM
I fully agree on every point, PJ. Blizzard's unwillingness to scrap units has been a huge gripe of mine for years. The Carrier and Thor should never have been in WoL. And now they're desperate to force broken units like the Reaper to work somehow. Its depressing, frankly.

Jconant
06-09-2012, 09:57 PM
It might be a problem, but I see this unit as an alternative to marauders if terrans want to make a mech army against zerg.

a terran would have to if they want to counter the "defiler" spell that effect bio units only.

DemolitionSquid
06-09-2012, 10:00 PM
It might be a problem, but I see this unit as an alternative to marauders if terrans want to make a mech army against zerg.

a terran would have to if they want to counter the "defiler" spell that effect bio units only.

Interesting point about Blinding Cloud. They really do seem to be giving Terran a "Factory Marauder." I'm really not sure how I feel about this.

Aldrius
06-10-2012, 05:35 AM
And the battle helion, basically just the campaign firebat in disguise.


Except it converts from a Hellion. Which actually is a huge difference and makes the Battle Hellion a whole lot more useful than a Firebat. (It's also mechanical.)

Honestly the Battle Hellion is more to provide the Hellion with late game use. The Hellion is just too fragile to be useful in large numbers in the late game. (When you're trying to kill like 30 Hydras or whatever.) Battle Hellion mode lets them be used as meatshields at worst, and lets them get close enough to kill the Hydras at best.

And when you don't need that, you can convert them back into hellions and use them for harassment.


I thought you could only build one Thor now, when did this change?

Dunno, but the Mothership is back in the game, so presumably that's why.

I think they should really just cut the Thor and give it's stuff to the Warhound (mainly it's air attack). The Thor is such dead weight at this point.

(Personally okay with them trying to fix up the Reaper, though. Good aesthetic and mechanics, worth salvaging!)

RamiZ
06-10-2012, 08:15 AM
Except that Reaper now is even less useful than before, because they are slow while Queens have 5 range. The only thing that I really disliked from previous Alpha stage, is that Reaper is getting "healing out of combat" ability. Without their speed, they are too slow, and will be killed a lot more often than staying alive with low health, and now they don't even have grenade attack to snipe creep tumors, or destroy buildings that are in the making.
I feel like that they are trying something that won't work at all. When I watched TvZ HOTS battle report, the Terran opened with 4-5 Reapers, while Zerg had 3-4 Queens, and Reapers were completely shut down. They did some minimal damage, but even with micro, and healing, they killed like 5-6 workers, or something like that, and for what? For the cost of 3-4 Reapers?

About the Warhound, I don't know, I feel satisfied with the unit, even tough it doesn't have real purpose in TvZ, it still is mechanical, so Blinding Cloud doesn't work on it, has pretty good HP and damage for its cost. I like that Terran will have to change strategies, and that they will start to play mech with Thors/Vikings/Tanks/Hellions/Mines/Warhounds. And I really like that they have changed the look of the Warhound, it looks really good now.

Mothxal
06-10-2012, 08:31 AM
I thought they could add the capability for the Warhound's missiles to target massive units in addition to mechanical ones. I don't know if it makes sense from a lore perspective but it would 1. make the 'massive' type more distinct and 2. add a way to counter zerg T3 for a mech composition that doesn't involve switching to marauder/viking.

Aldrius
06-10-2012, 10:43 AM
Don't tanks counter Ultralisks? =S


I feel like that they are trying something that won't work at all. When I watched TvZ HOTS battle report, the Terran opened with 4-5 Reapers, while Zerg had 3-4 Queens

The speed is something of a concern. (Not really sure why they took that out.) But if a player invests in 3-4 queens he should probably be pretty resistant to harassment.

RamiZ
06-10-2012, 12:56 PM
Don't tanks counter Ultralisks? =S



The speed is something of a concern. (Not really sure why they took that out.) But if a player invests in 3-4 queens he should probably be pretty resistant to harassment.
My point is, nowadays, every Zerg get at least 3-4 Queens on two bases, spreading creep, defending, spawn larvae, Queens are always useful. If you go with Hellions now, and you can get them a little bit later than Reapers, you can do some serious damage, even with so many Queens. They now have battle form, are fast and can go past Queens, and are in some way cheaper than Reapers.
Don't really know, I still don't think it is a good idea to take out speed upgrade, maybe they will give it back, we will see.

Cotcan
06-10-2012, 03:54 PM
The problem with going mech with Terran is that you have to have Thors, or you don't have any anti-air. It's really the only reason to build Thors. I think it would be best to give the Warhound some sort of anti-air, because if Zerg goes mutas, the only units that can save you is viking, marine, and the Thor. Personally I really don't want to have to pay tons of money, and have to have an armory in order to just have anti-air that can easily be taken out if the Viper comes in.

It's possible we may see the end of mech against Zerg for that reason, or have a mech-bio strategy. Even doing that the Viper can shut that down too with the cloud. In sc, you had the Goliath that didn't have much hp, but it did give you anti-air that wasn't that much.

Kimera757
06-10-2012, 04:09 PM
According to my calculations, the DPS of a warhound (versus non-mechanical) is 1058 per minute. (It can fire 46 times per minute, doing 23 damage each time.)

The haywire missiles only fire every 30 seconds, and only deal 30 damage (60 extra damage per minute). I'm thinking the missiles need an upgrade if the warhound is to keep its current role.

RamiZ
06-10-2012, 06:29 PM
According to my calculations, the DPS of a warhound (versus non-mechanical) is 1058 per minute. (It can fire 46 times per minute, doing 23 damage each time.)

The haywire missiles only fire every 30 seconds, and only deal 30 damage (60 extra damage per minute). I'm thinking the missiles need an upgrade if the warhound is to keep its current role.
As far as I know, Haywire missiles got 6 sec cooldown. Check it again.


The problem with going mech with Terran is that you have to have Thors, or you don't have any anti-air. It's really the only reason to build Thors. I think it would be best to give the Warhound some sort of anti-air, because if Zerg goes mutas, the only units that can save you is viking, marine, and the Thor. Personally I really don't want to have to pay tons of money, and have to have an armory in order to just have anti-air that can easily be taken out if the Viper comes in.

It's possible we may see the end of mech against Zerg for that reason, or have a mech-bio strategy. Even doing that the Viper can shut that down too with the cloud. In sc, you had the Goliath that didn't have much hp, but it did give you anti-air that wasn't that much.
It is true that Thor is the only "real" unit from factory, that attacks air, but Widow Mines also work against air units, and they can be deadly, especially if you have a lot of them, and enemy has a lot of units(like every Zerg), and can't micro them out quickly enough. They are also very very cheap and extremely cost-effective against everything that costs more than Roach.

Kimera757
06-10-2012, 07:33 PM
As far as I know, Haywire missiles got 6 sec cooldown. Check it again.

By Jove, you're right. That's 300 extra damage (since it's now firing 10 times a minute). Still seems pretty small, but at least there's a point now.

DemolitionSquid
06-10-2012, 08:39 PM
Guys, don't forget about Widow Mines for AA now. They will decimate Mutalisks when used well.

Cotcan
06-10-2012, 09:59 PM
It is true that Thor is the only "real" unit from factory, that attacks air, but Widow Mines also work against air units, and they can be deadly, especially if you have a lot of them, and enemy has a lot of units(like every Zerg), and can't micro them out quickly enough. They are also very very cheap and extremely cost-effective against everything that costs more than Roach.

Oh ya I forgot about those, but they can't chase down mutas when they are on the run. Vikings aren't fast enough ether. Using the mines for AA is all luck of the draw. One game you can take air on no problem, the next, your mines do no damage to air. I would still prefer the have the Warhound just get the Thor's AA or an AA of some kind and have a cheaper mech AA that can move around no problem.

When I first saw the Warhound it reminded me of the Goliath in sc1. I would like it if the Goliath came back, it took care of AA no problem. Too bad they turned it into the Thor.

Amph
06-11-2012, 03:50 AM
I like how it is now, in BW is the same, some mu were possible only with certain units, if it was possible to use all the units in every match-up, we lose somehow, the "mu-identity", and the game will become more boring imho

GRUNT
06-12-2012, 05:51 PM
Just to clarify - Blizzard considered making the Thor a one-of only-unit Back when Warhounds could attack both air and ground. The Warhound was created partly to 'solve' the issue of Thors being too big and cumbersome to deal with certain aerial harass.

In order to not make the Warhound simply a 'smaller Thor', they changed the Thor back to its one-of status and increased its power.

However, I don't think they were happy with how that was playing out and maybe they felt that the Warhound wasn't 'new' enough for an expansion, so the Warhound is now a specialist anti-mech unit. I think it's a good decision, really. I'm not too fussed if the Warhound doesn't show up in ZvT.

RamiZ
06-12-2012, 06:28 PM
Just to clarify - Blizzard considered making the Thor a one-of only-unit Back when Warhounds could attack both air and ground. The Warhound was created partly to 'solve' the issue of Thors being too big and cumbersome to deal with certain aerial harass.

In order to not make the Warhound simply a 'smaller Thor', they changed the Thor back to its one-of status and increased its power.

However, I don't think they were happy with how that was playing out and maybe they felt that the Warhound wasn't 'new' enough for an expansion, so the Warhound is now a specialist anti-mech unit. I think it's a good decision, really. I'm not too fussed if the Warhound doesn't show up in ZvT.

Same here.

And btw, welcome back Grunt. Long time no see. :D

phazonjunkie
06-14-2012, 06:13 AM
Thinking about it now, I can't really see what unique purpose the Warhound serves in any matchup; with the sole exception of TvT. It doesn't do anything unique against the Protoss. As far as I know, Terran factory units weren't especially outclassed vs Protoss mech, at least not to the extent that a new unit was really necessary.

The only really unique thing the Warhound does is to (potentially) allow a Terran ground army to A move into a Tank line; so basically you're just paying for the haywire missile, & the ability to survive a tank barrage long enough to deploy it. I really don't see why you'd need a new unit for that. I'd just give the ability to the Thor, or better yet, the Siege tank itself (tank mode only) and give it an HP buff in T-mode, like a battle-mode hellion. It would at least provide some incentive to keep tanks in tank mode/encourage more tank micro, instead of just siegeing up at the first sign of battle.

The_Blade
06-14-2012, 09:24 AM
I understand where Blizzard is comming from with the War Hound; but, as PhazonJunkie said, it was not the best option to solve TvT long games. Terrans will need a "dedicated" anti-zerg unit if Blizzard wants to keep the warhound as it is. Ghosts were great, but they were nerfed because the Zerg was unable to micro against snipes. If the Viper's ability also reduces the casting radius for a unit to 1, the ghost should get their old snipe back.

Yes, the Warhoud is completely useless against Zerg and I would never build them on the matchup because of their cost. It is a problem because Zerg have developed new abilities that they might use in all of their matchups while Terran is limited to the old school, well known tactics.

Rake
06-15-2012, 09:11 AM
I think a unit not being used in a match-up isn't desirable, but I think it is a least-worst situation. It is better to have a specific unit that plugs a hole than to have a hole in the gameplay.

Cotcan
06-15-2012, 10:07 PM
Blizzard did say in the battle reports that nothing is final, so it is possible that the Warhound may be thrown out. It's also possible that it may gain an air attack, but I doubt it as it looks like the got most everything pretty finalized.

MulletBen
06-19-2012, 02:08 AM
It doesn't do anything unique against the Protoss. As far as I know, Terran factory units weren't especially outclassed vs Protoss mech, at least not to the extent that a new unit was really necessary.


Have you ever seen mech used against protoss? Not since they nerfed blue-flame, at least, and even then it wasn't very good. Immortals can tear through tanks, colossi can splash on hellions, and of course zealots can either run in or drop in and kill everything. Mech was okay for a while, but the thor nerf plus the hellion nerf means that mech just has far too many good counters and not a lot of good ways to deal with them.
Keep in mind that haywire missiles are a spell, meaning they will cut right through the immortal's hardened shield. I'm not sure I agree with that, seeing as how immortals are supposed to be designed to counter mech, and thors already have the ability to kill immortals with their strike cannons, but nevertheless this offers an alternative, if not better solution. It will certainly be cheaper and available earlier. Now, between thors, tanks, battlehellions, thors, and vikings, there should be an answer to everything protoss has, which just leaves it to balancing.


I understand where Blizzard is comming from with the War Hound; but, as PhazonJunkie said, it was not the best option to solve TvT long games. Terrans will need a "dedicated" anti-zerg unit if Blizzard wants to keep the warhound as it is. Ghosts were great, but they were nerfed because the Zerg was unable to micro against snipes. If the Viper's ability also reduces the casting radius for a unit to 1, the ghost should get their old snipe back.

Yes, the Warhoud is completely useless against Zerg and I would never build them on the matchup because of their cost. It is a problem because Zerg have developed new abilities that they might use in all of their matchups while Terran is limited to the old school, well known tactics.

I disagree with all of this. I see no reason why Terran needs a dedicated anti-zerg unit, no reason why ghosts should get their old snipe back, no reason why Widow mines and battle hellions will not add anything to terrans strategies.



I think a unit not being used in a match-up isn't desirable, but I think it is a least-worst situation. It is better to have a specific unit that plugs a hole than to have a hole in the gameplay.

^this

phazonjunkie
06-19-2012, 04:26 AM
Have you ever seen mech used against protoss? Not since they nerfed blue-flame, at least, and even then it wasn't very good. Immortals can tear through tanks, colossi can splash on hellions, and of course zealots can either run in or drop in and kill everything. Mech was okay for a while, but the thor nerf plus the hellion nerf means that mech just has far too many good counters and not a lot of good ways to deal with them.

No, terran mech had a single protoss mech counter that it really had to worry about: the Immortal. Problem was, it countered EVERYTHING that came
out of the factory. Terran mech got a slight reprieve when the Thor's energy bar was removed in one patch, but it was put right back in the next. Some obscure rarely seen strike cannon rush that had protoss players up in arms. Even then, with the inclusion of proper supporting units like ghosts or ravens (which you really should be building anyway against protoss) Terran mech should've been more than capable of dealing with protoss robo w/o another factory unit.

If anything, the missile could potentially create more problems than it solves, as it could potentially shut down protoss robo, in which the situation would simply be switched around, with protoss mech being unable to deal with factory base builds.



Keep in mind that haywire missiles are a spell,

That was kinda my point. Why would you have to introduce a new unit that is uninspired and doesn't really offer anything new in terms of gameplay just for a spell that is highly situational and utterly useless in at least a third of all match ups? Just give the spell to an existing unit.


Now, between thors, tanks, battlehellions, thors, and vikings, there should be an answer to everything protoss has, which just leaves it to balancing

Why should a single production building be able to counter an entire tech tree? A pure gateway or pure robo would be inadvisable in most situations, why should the factory be any different?

MulletBen
06-19-2012, 01:06 PM
No, terran mech had a single protoss mech counter that it really had to worry about: the Immortal. Problem was, it countered EVERYTHING that came
out of the factory. Terran mech got a slight reprieve when the Thor's energy bar was removed in one patch, but it was put right back in the next. Some obscure rarely seen strike cannon rush that had protoss players up in arms. Even then, with the inclusion of proper supporting units like ghosts or ravens (which you really should be building anyway against protoss) Terran mech should've been more than capable of dealing with protoss robo w/o another factory unit.

Ghosts have terrible synergy with mech. With bio, you can EMP the army, then stim forward and force an engagement, unless the protoss uses some clever forcefielding to get himself away. On the other hand, if you EMP an army when you have mech, the protoss is just going to run, and there's nothing mech units can do to try to catch up. Ravens are largely unexplored, and have powerful spells like seeker missile, auto turrets, and point defense drones; none of which would be particularly effective against the units that are good against mech. Right now, zealots and immortals counter tanks, colossus counter hellions, high templar counter everything, void rays counter thors pretty well, and will of course kill everything once the anti-air is down. Not to mention that warp prism drops can be incredibly hard to deal with and can pull mech armies out of position. Terran mech in WoL consists of 3 factory units, as well as vikings if you want to do anything about drops, colossus, void rays, etc. Like bio, if you make too many vikings and not enough ground units, you have wasted army supply (not to mention money). Only with mech, you can't run from an engagement, and mech is already so weak against toss that you need all the army you can get.


If anything, the missile could potentially create more problems than it solves, as it could potentially shut down protoss robo, in which the situation would simply be switched around, with protoss mech being unable to deal with factory base builds.

At which point the the protoss would just have to get creative with the billion other things they have that are good against mech.


That was kinda my point. Why would you have to introduce a new unit that is uninspired and doesn't really offer anything new in terms of gameplay just for a spell that is highly situational and utterly useless in at least a third of all match ups? Just give the spell to an existing unit.

So you would rather terran have one unit that counters a whole bunch of things, rather than one unit that counters a small number of things? One factory unit to counter all kinds of different protoss units, as opposed to 2 units to counter 2 very different things?


Why should a single production building be able to counter an entire tech tree? A pure gateway or pure robo would be inadvisable in most situations, why should the factory be any different?

Zerg has one production building that counters everything from every race. Terran isn't protoss, and never has been, and never should be. They play differently, and they should play differently. There is a reason that all protoss ground units share the same upgrades: they are designed to be used together. Protoss has 3 tech paths that revolve around the three core gateway units. No one would ever suggest a stargate/robo army, or a high templar/archon/stargate army, or any other combination of units without zealots or stalkers or sentries. The factory should be different because Terran should be different.

phazonjunkie
06-19-2012, 02:17 PM
I hear what you're saying, and you make some really good points.

I'm not neccessarily opposed to the idea of new factory units. (I think the widow mine shows a lot of potential for example) it's just that the Warhound, w/o haywire missile (or even WITH it) just looks and feels uninspired & reduntant, especially when contrasted with other interesting new units like the Tempest or Swarm host. That's all I'm saying.

The_Blade
06-19-2012, 08:45 PM
My main problem with the Warhound is that it is expensive and uninteresting, as others have pointed out. As well, protoss now have 3 casters, zerg has 3 casters, and terrans still duel with their two unchanged casters. You can clearly see how Terrans look uninteresting and lacking if you see the latest multiplayer unit video. The Widow Mine is great, but the rest of the new stuff for Terran isn't that great.

Dustin Browder mentioned they had to cut zerg stuff out of the demo because of several reasons. While they seem to know what to do with Protoss and Zerg, Blizzard seems to have reached a new block regarding new Terran units. It's like the Thor/Maraunder/Siege Tank issue all over again.

Cotcan
06-21-2012, 01:55 PM
The main reason they have problems adding to Terran is that Terran already has counters to most everything. For example the MMM ball, the marines take out the air, marauders tank and do the damage to armored, while the medivacs heal both of them. Do to this, they are having a hard time finding roles for new Terran units that don't take one that is already being used.

For example, the Warhound used to be the mini thor. Being cheaper, attacking air quite well, and being somewhat of a cannon, but because they kept the mothership, and they only wanted 1 unit type to only have 1 out at a time, the Thor would be kicked out. So they turned the Warhound into an anti-mech unit. A new role that hasn't been used, and does have the possibility of fixing the mech problem vs toss that many people have already pointed out. It could also be too powerful and flip the tables as it's already been mentioned.

There's nothing wrong with having a unit you don't use against certain races. Remember the reaper? Once everyone found out that it was easily countered, and Blizzard blocked it's early harassment use, it was useless. Because it really was only useful early on. Now instead of trashing it in the expansion, they are trying to make it somewhat useful. Although in true it really does need to be faster, or that heal won't help much.

RamiZ
06-21-2012, 05:12 PM
The main reason they have problems adding to Terran is that Terran already has counters to most everything. For example the MMM ball, the marines take out the air, marauders tank and do the damage to armored, while the medivacs heal both of them. Do to this, they are having a hard time finding roles for new Terran units that don't take one that is already being used.
It doesn't really counters everything, but it has potential to beat everything if played well(micro together with drops). My problem with Terrans overall is that they have the most cost-effective units in the game. Not saying it is a problem on higher levels though, but Hellions cost 100 minerals and they completely shut down everything that is light, in this expansion, they will have battle mode, which just means that they will now be even more powerful... Marines cost 50 Minerals, and you are basically forced to make some AoE units like Banelings/Infestors/Colossi/High Templars, or you will probably lose just to mass Marines. They are just too powerful for 50 minerals, again, not saying that they don't have counters, but even with units that should counter them, don't really counter them if you have godlike micro(which is still really difficult to pull out, but still).

And in this expansion, we get Widow Mines(That I actually like quite a lot, even though I play Zerg) that costs 75/25, while do 200 damage, and lower damage in AoE... That means that Terran are suddenly immune to Muta harass... I mean really? It is ok to nerf it, or to find a valid counter to them, but not to shut it down completely...
So, we have Widow mines that can be produced with Reactor as add-on, meaning two at a time, and everytime I come into Terran base to harass, I will trade at least one Muta for Widow Mine, meaning 100/100 for 75/25... I just dislike that design.

solidsamurai
08-27-2012, 03:55 AM
TvT fights could probably do to be a bit faster (unless I'm still thinking in terms of BW, heh), so a way of knocking out vehicles seems warranted.

MulletBen
09-05-2012, 07:39 PM
Apparently we were all wrong; the war hound is so broken that it is actually good in TvZ, in spite of being designed for a different matchup.

solidsamurai
09-05-2012, 07:46 PM
You're probably right.

But it's not like blizz's design strengths are gameplay anymore. Entertainment industry evolves quickly (even if the consumer doesn't), and the company has simply changed too much in the past 10 years.

If you observe everything new by blizzard, their main strengths are art, art, and more art. Even if they don't do very good in-game 3d rendering (diablo 3 looks horrible on that side of things; the 2d art that was incorporated was top notch, but the 3d felt out of place, however small it actually was).

If another thing like blizzard north came up, then they could dominate again - but I dunno if the activision blizz deal will allow that. If it doesn't, then the vision is permanently gone and blizz should become a game producer, not a game designer (this is the future of all big corporations and how they survive; liquidity and investment - they can never hope to remain in the work bench).

Yeah the above is really random, sorry. Will stick in another thread.

Skyze
09-05-2012, 07:48 PM
In pro games, it seems rushing for a quick warhound push is an alternate method of stopping the zerg from over-macroing; as warhounds can easily take out queens fast.

I think it will be a good unit in every matchup, I plan on trying using it for drops, as its fast and responsive almost like a stalker; Sure it may not do as much damage as 4 hellions dropped in the back, but you gotta remember 4 hellions can't take out a queen easily (and may not even get a single drone if your opponent is quick with his pull) - Warhounds will get 1-2 drones instantly, and pick off queens fast.

It seems they aren't great for the matchup, obviously since no mechanical zerg units, but they aren't completely terrible. I'd take it over thors at their cost/effectiveness lol

solidsamurai
09-05-2012, 09:14 PM
Warhounds will get 1-2 drones instantly, and pick off queens fast. So the zerg could counter this with nydus canal or some kind of nydus worm upgrade?

Warhound would nonetheless need some hard counters to make it okay.

Also, hellions aren't as fun as vultures in BW (they just aren't good at hit and run, even though they're fast - there's some sort of attack delay). Blizz needs to reintroduce something like vultures. Or, introduce load outs into an RTS game and then separate ladder matches by allowed load outs (ie. the vulture instead of hellion load out).

Kimera757
09-15-2012, 06:51 PM
Now that the warhound has been canceled, does anyone think it'll show up in the campaign? It's zerg-only, unless Blizzard squeezes in some Raynor or protoss missions somehow.

DemolitionSquid
09-15-2012, 08:10 PM
Now that the Warhound has been canceled, does anyone think it'll show up in the campaign? It's Zerg-only, unless Blizzard squeezes in some Raynor or Protoss missions somehow.

Warhound isn't cancelled. Its been taken back to the drawing board after a week of mass beta. Big difference. Blizzard needs to add a new unit for Terran. You can bet your ass the Warhound will be back, but in a different form.

RamiZ
09-16-2012, 03:03 AM
Warhound isn't cancelled. Its been taken back to the drawing board after a week of mass beta. Big difference. Blizzard needs to add a new unit for Terran. You can bet your ass the Warhound will be back, but in a different form.

And since they start listening to the pro players feedback, and are asking for their opinion and what should they change, we might get the new, balanced and good Warhound that serves its purpose instead of being able to counter everything.