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KDraconis
06-08-2012, 10:47 PM
I got to play HotS for a solid hour at MLG today, although I only played against comps. It SEEMED like there were only Versus AI stations, and against Easy AI, no less.

So, any questions that people have?

DemolitionSquid
06-08-2012, 11:08 PM
I got to play HotS for a solid hour at MLG today, although I only played against comps. It SEEMED like there were only Versus AI stations, and against Easy AI, no less.

So, any questions that people have?

Always start with running down the basics.

1. Go through each new change/unit and their abilities, and list every possible stat you can remember (HP, Supply Cost, Energy cost).

2.Then discuss how you used each new change/unit and help to expand on your experience and any interesting functionality of the units.

Rake
06-09-2012, 01:21 AM
Did you find anything particularly fun/not fun?

KDraconis
06-09-2012, 02:11 AM
Sorry, I posted the stats for the new units on the front page before I posted here, but I forgot to include the link in the original post.
Here they are: http://sclegacy.com/news/23-sc2/1157-heart-of-the-swarm-unit-stats

Like I said, the only option for an opponent was Easy AI, but I'll try to give my general opinions on each new unit/upgrade.

Starting with the Zerg, the Swarm Host can be produced as soon as an Infestation Pit is made, which gives the Zerg a much more stable mid-game. They just feel great to use, being a siege unit and yet remaining genuinely Zerg-y. It kinda feels like a Lurker in its role, arguably better than Lurkers since Swarm Hosts can attack air units as well. Without the Locust life upgrade, they do feel slightly underwhelming though.

The Viper is amazing. Both Abduct and Blinding Cloud complement Zerglings and Banelings incredibly well, which I like. Abduct feels about right in terms of balance because the range on it isn't ridiculously large. Around 6 range, I think? So it needs SOMETHING to cover for it if you want to pull in Colossi or Siege Tanks, since both units usually sit in the center of deathballs. The Blinding Cloud looks like a great counter to MMM (for obvious reasons) and Roach-heavy Zerg, since Roaches are slow enough to be easily contained in the clouds (not so true with Hydralisks, which can now have the same speed on and off creep via an upgrade). Consume is... well, it's consume from BW.

Aside from the Hydralisk speed upgrade, the Ultralisk has the burrow charge ability (which does not have to be researched as far as I know), which makes them stupid powerful. No more getting stuck behind Zerglings, just barely getting stuck between two structures, etc.

Onto the Terran. Reapers got changed a lot, which I don't really like. They lost their speed upgrade and their D8 charges in exchange for a health-regen upgrade. One that only works out of combat. This basically makes them a "attack until low health, then hide in a corner for a bit" kind of raider which just feels... wrong. The fun of watching them speed around blowing up buildings is gone now.

Widow Mine is really interesting, since it gives Terran a Factory-produced area control unit that's cheap and fast to make. Since it has almost no effectiveness in combat (if the unit a mine is latched on to dies, the mine does not explode), it's used to hide at mineral fields to blow up expanding SCVs (doesn't work too well against Probes or Drones, since the expanding isn't stopped), catch Banshees, Mutas, or Oracles in place of Thors that should be out killing stuff, making sure watch towers aren't occupied, etc. Speaking of watch towers and Widow Mines, you can leave an unburrowed Widow Mine to activate a watch tower, then burrow when you notice a scout coming, effectively pulling a "if I can't have it, nobody can" suicide.

Hellion mech form... meh. It takes around 3 seconds to transform, and just doesn't feel like it would be used anywhere. It does have higher damage and health, but the loss of movement speed and attack range doesn't seem worth it to me. I guess it's more of an A-move unit option against Zergling-heavy Zerg.

Warhound. Model has been updated, and it looks much, MUCH better than that old scrawny thing it used to be. It's feels great to use, since it looks pretty awesome firing missiles while also firing its basic attack. Not much to say, except that it could make TvT and TvP a lot more interesting, and that's the very purpose it's supposed to fulfill.

The Mothership Core for the Protoss strikes me as an ingenious way to solve the problems that Mass Recall had when Nexuses all had the ability to call back a group of units; having several Mass Recalls practically for free (since you're going to build Nexuses to expand anyways) was slightly ridiculous. This means the Protoss have more safety in poking out and aggressing a little, since there's the option to recall. There's the point too that Mothership Cores will do wonders in protecting an expansion, since you can immediately teleport reinforcements to it AND turn into a super Photon Cannon. Fast-expanding is pretty fun with this guy.

Oracle looks fun and I wish I got to use it against something more challenging than an Easy AI, since denying resources and scouting and hiding units isn't that gratifying. One really important thing though, is that Oracles have ridiculous synergy with Tempests, since Tempests need a spotter for its massive 22 range. Preordain lasts two minutes, so that's two minutes in which you can devastate worker lines from an unreachable position, or to punch through defensive lines before your main force rushes in.

For the Tempest, despite having the longest range in the game, it isn't really overpowered and might even be underpowered because it is so expensive, fires very very slowly, and moves very slowly. Its DPS is unbelievably low, but it still feels awesome to use such a long-range unit in conjunction with Oracles (that can create unremovable sight radiuses) and Observers.

That should be all the new stuff. If there's anything anyone is curious about, let me know. The play area is always half-empty anyways, so I can go in and play more tomorrow.

Aldrius
06-09-2012, 02:42 AM
One thing I noticed in the battle report (because I love queens) is that they increased the Queen's STS range attack. She only uses the spine things on her back when they're close now. (Like the Hydralisk/Roach) The new model is cool too. Viper and Swarm Host look really fitting.

Really loving things. I like the Widow Mine, but not sure I like it... as a unit. Feels a little too Zerg-like and a bit strange. But the concept of a cloaked ground thing that sticks itself to the enemy (air or ground) is neat and fitting.

Reaper change is a little weird, I would have thought they'd keep the speed upgrade if they're going to give it an out of combat regen.

Loving all the Protoss stuff. 22 range seems like a BIT much. (That's double the siege tank's range... on a flying unit.) But the Mothership Core seems really neat, wonder if they've changed the Mothership any. (Probably has that recharge ability in place of Cloaking Field.)

KDraconis
06-09-2012, 03:01 AM
One thing I noticed in the battle report (because I love queens) is that they increased the Queen's STS range attack. She only uses the spine things on her back when they're close now. (Like the Hydralisk/Roach) The new model is cool too. Viper and Swarm Host look really fitting.
Have you noticed the construction selection wireframes (how they're not just the same model as the building, but translucent), and the tentacle that slithers out when you create a Tumor with a Tumor? It's the little visual details that just make the game feel incredible.


But the Mothership Core seems really neat, wonder if they've changed the Mothership any. (Probably has that recharge ability in place of Cloaking Field.)
The Mothership (in the build I played) is really wonky. Dustin Browder himself said that it's not going to last long in its current state. Right now, the Mothership has... Recall (darnit, not sure about this one), Vortex, and Stasis. Vortex was changed to only affect ground units, but is otherwise the same as before. Stasis is nothing like Arbiter Stasis, and actually just freezes ALL air units near the Mothership for a certain amount of time. "All" meaning your own units too. Dustin said it was just a "thing" they wanted to try to see if they could make different CC abilities that had different drawbacks while still meshing well, which they couldn't achieve with the current iteration of the Mothership.

Aldrius
06-09-2012, 03:10 AM
Huh. Weird... yeah, the Mothership doesn't sound very good at all.

Don't understand the point of sticking recall on such a slow, fat unit. On the nexus it kind of makes sense. (Especially given how early it is in the tech tree) But it doesn't seem worth it on a mobile unit.


Have you noticed the construction selection wireframes (how they're not just the same model as the building, but translucent), and the tentacle that slithers out when you create a Tumor with a Tumor? It's the little visual details that just make the game feel incredible.


Actually I didn't. That's really cool.

Rake
06-09-2012, 03:11 AM
Why would they change the queen? The 'spine wings' attack animation is one of my favorites in the game.

Aldrius
06-09-2012, 03:15 AM
Why would they change the queen? The 'spine wings' attack animation is one of my favorites in the game.

It's still in the game as I said she uses it when units are in melee range, but uh... they changed her for obvious reasons. A tier 1 unit that is that central should not be that vulnerable when used defensively.

Rake
06-09-2012, 04:08 AM
It's still in the game as I said she uses it when units are in melee range, but uh... they changed her for obvious reasons. A tier 1 unit that is that central should not be that vulnerable when used defensively.

I mean in HotS they have removed the spine wings from Queens.The just shoot at any range.

RamiZ
06-09-2012, 04:13 AM
I mean in HotS they have removed the spine wings from Queens.The just shoot at any range.

No, they don't. They have the same animations as Hydras and Roaches, they use their "tentacles" at close range, and shoot spines at longer range. You can see those in battle reports.

Rake
06-09-2012, 04:59 AM
No, they don't. They have the same animations as Hydras and Roaches, they use their "tentacles" at close range, and shoot spines at longer range. You can see those in battle reports.

What I am saying is I prefer the spine wings.

RamiZ
06-09-2012, 05:04 AM
What I am saying is I prefer the spine wings.

Oh, ok, I misunderstood you then. :D

Aldrius
06-09-2012, 05:05 AM
I'm... pretty sure they still have them.

They just only use them at melee range.

Anyway, from a gameplay perspective the increased range is VERY useful. Now they can actually counter reapers, hellions and stalkers and stuff.

New queen Model is kind of a mixed bag for me. I like the colour scheme a lot better, but she looks less... imposing somehow.

Also I'm really glad they didn't cut the Mothership. Moreso than the Carrier really. Very distinctly Protoss, and lots of potential with the abilities. I'm so undecided on the Tempest, though. Seems sort of generic, but I can't deny that it's a step up from the Carrier.

Rake
06-09-2012, 05:14 AM
I just checked and they do still have spine wings. They are just significantly reduced. :(

DemolitionSquid
06-09-2012, 05:36 PM
I posted a new thread about the Warhound I'd really like opinions on.
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14449

Kimera757
06-09-2012, 08:48 PM
What are the stats on "Purify" (eg the cannon stats)?

Existor
06-10-2012, 03:06 AM
What are the stats on "Purify" (eg the cannon stats)?

It's like a standart Photon cannon, but with 60 damage for 20 seconds

Alex06
06-10-2012, 11:53 AM
What about the Protoss Mothership? The Mothership Core can turn into the actual Mothership, but what does the Mothership have now as its abilities? Can it still cloak and use Vortex?

DemolitionSquid
06-10-2012, 12:07 PM
What about the Protoss Mothership? The Mothership Core can turn into the actual Mothership, but what does the Mothership have now as its abilities? Can it still cloak and use Vortex?

Mothership currently retains Recall, has a Vortex that only affects ground units, and has a 20 second Stasis nova. It no longer has cloak, which was given to the Oracle.

Aldrius
06-10-2012, 12:19 PM
Also: Dustin said that the Mothership as of now was definitely a Work in Progress. (Though really, when hasn't it been?)

Kimera757
06-11-2012, 10:39 AM
Do banelings still have that burrow movement ability like they had at BlizzCon 2011?

RamiZ
06-11-2012, 10:47 AM
Do banelings still have that burrow movement ability like they had at BlizzCon 2011?
As far as I know, no.