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View Full Version : Things should have multiple models liked DTs



TheProgramer
02-18-2012, 02:02 AM
Criteria: A unit needs to be recognizable for what it is immediately upon looking at it.

Given the above criteria I believe multiple models can still work for the following units:


Female Ghosts*



Marines with different Graffiti (much like the Goliaths in the campaign)



Female Zealots
or
Black Zealots**



I understand that the reason there are not multiple models, according to a BlizzCon Panel, is because Blizzard wants units to be recognizable for what they are immediately upon looking at them.

They say it works well for Dark Templars because they are permanently cloaked (so when they're looked - at both models are similar enough and with the fuzziness of cloak people know what they are immediately).


*We've seen other in-game models for them they look just like regular ghosts but with hair. I think they can be immediately distinguishable as ghosts if they come out male or female.
**like this one: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/media/fanart/?view=&keywords=&page=1#/fanart-0150

Duckyyy
02-18-2012, 06:16 AM
I honestly disagree. Multiple models would just be uneeded tbf, how often do you honestly pay that much attention to your armies models when in a game ?

Robear
02-18-2012, 10:36 AM
Not that anyone would during a competitive game, but I actually pay a lot of attention. It was incredibly cool for me when the goliaths had varied graffiti in the campaign.

That said, female ghosts would not work (not because of the hair, which should be covered up anyway (http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/7/7f/Ghost_SC-G_Game1.jpg)). The slight differences in the model would look awesome, but they would need to have different voice actors. And, even if they said the same lines, it's still hurting that instant recognition criterion: the dark templar only work because they can use the same voice.

I guess it'd be cool if zealots slightly varied in skin tone and eye color in the portrait or something, but then you'd sort of wonder why all the terran portraits didn't each have a bunch of different faces. Which would also be cool, but is getting into the 'too much effort' zone.

Sheliek
02-18-2012, 12:43 PM
To be fair, there are over a dozen marine portraits. A couple variations for other units would be neat.

Josue
02-18-2012, 05:41 PM
Well, having more models in the Galaxy editor would be great, using them for custom games and stuff like that. I would have loved to have female ghosts and why not, also bring back the classic SCV, I guess I kinda liked more the things he said and the way it's fusion cutter sounded.
Yet for multiplayer... I don't know, I don't know the reasons Blizzard didn't want to give us female ghosts, but the points Robear make seem to be good reasons. Yet as always, variety is good, and even if it's not for Multiplayer, having them at least for the editor would be awesome.

Genopath
02-19-2012, 12:39 AM
I think it adds little graphical value to the game. Keep in mind there's a cost involved in new models besides the costs involved in putting them into the game. Each new model is going to translate into a generally larger loading time, and could be a potential source of confusion for new players and for targeting purposes.

Clicking on a ghost might seem easy to one but it might not be so for a casual player in a 4v4 with everyone with 100 unit armies.

TheProgramer
02-19-2012, 09:32 AM
I think it being an option in the menus would be best.

Eligor
02-19-2012, 11:15 AM
I'm not sure about multiple models, but texture variations with different signs of rust, wear and grit would sure be cool for the Terrans, they're far too sleek and shiny now (also random marines with a decal on the shoulder).

Alex06
02-20-2012, 11:50 PM
Female Ghosts and Zealots could be acceptable, but are they really necessary? The only reason we got both DTs is because they had upgraded the older model and no one wanted to get rid of it completely, so we decided to simply keep both.

solidsamurai
04-09-2012, 03:33 PM
Criteria: A unit needs to be recognizable for what it is immediately upon looking at it.

Given the above criteria I believe multiple models can still work for the following units:


Female Ghosts*



Marines with different Graffiti (much like the Goliaths in the campaign)



Female Zealots
or
Black Zealots**



I understand that the reason there are not multiple models, according to a BlizzCon Panel, is because Blizzard wants units to be recognizable for what they are immediately upon looking at them.

They say it works well for Dark Templars because they are permanently cloaked (so when they're looked - at both models are similar enough and with the fuzziness of cloak people know what they are immediately).


*We've seen other in-game models for them they look just like regular ghosts but with hair. I think they can be immediately distinguishable as ghosts if they come out male or female.
**like this one: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/media/fanart/?view=&keywords=&page=1#/fanart-0150

You do realize that posting a request on SC2Mapster might actually work, right?

Keep your chin up, and maybe someone else will fulfill your dreams. Etc., etc.

----
Also, dammit I want my rapping, jersey shore zealot, sporting a tank top, gold-chain necklace, and cargo jean-shorts with orange spray tan and frosted tendrils.


I understand that the reason there are not multiple models, according to a BlizzCon Panel, is because Blizzard wants units to be recognizable for what they are immediately upon looking at them.

They say it works well for Dark Templars because they are permanently cloaked (so when they're looked - at both models are similar enough and with the fuzziness of cloak people know what they are immediately).Oh yeah, and I suppose flashy explosions and glossy attack animations that make it difficult to see in a lowered resolution (not to mention problems with mouse synching, and the fact that the frame rate affects the mouse of all things, just as much as everything else; even in broodwar, the most ridiculous lag never effected my cursor, as far as I remember), are fine then?

A unit's voice (or even just the name when you click on it, or the grid-pic, or the double-click group) should identify it more than anything.

hyde
04-18-2012, 04:02 PM
From all the concept art, I would imagine they considered female ghosts. Shame though they didn't implement them, the entire terran army is a massive sausage fest asides from the Dropship pilot now.

http://images.wikia.com/starcraft/images/b/bd/Ghost_SC2_Head1.jpg
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t228/Shadowshiner/Starcraft%20Wallpapers/terran_1600x1200.jpg

TheEconomist
04-19-2012, 06:02 PM
the entire terran army is a massive sausage fest asides from the Dropship pilot now.

Kind of like a real army?

TheProgramer
04-30-2012, 01:59 AM
A unit's voice (or even just the name when you click on it, or the grid-pic, or the double-click group) should identify it more than anything.

Not sure you're getting Blizzard's point. They're talking about identifiying units on the field. They dont want a Pro - or anyone really - to have to click on a unit, listen to its voice, and look at its portait to identify it. That would be insane.

solidsamurai
04-30-2012, 02:07 AM
Not sure you're getting Blizzard's point. They're talking about identifiying units on the field. They dont want a Pro - or anyone really - to have to click on a unit, listen to its voice, and look at its portait to identify it. That would be insane.

I didn't say that either.

I'm just saying that companies like Blizz have an interesting way of justifying certain actions and not really solving others that have to do with similar problems (visibility of what's going on).

The fact that they stuck with two DT models, even though their original intention was to help players identify them differently from zeratul, and also the cloaked blur thing (nevermind ghosts, spectres, nova and tosh being other cloak units).

In the original BW, every attakcing unit had a unique sound effect. In sc 2, I find it hard to distinguish between the sound of an immortal or that of a stalker (attack wise; and an immortal is pretty silent when on the move, despite being big).

Also, the only time I know there's a goliath about is that constant servo humming noise (really annoying; why is goliath movement so loud and not, oh, I dunno, tanks or friggin' battlecruisers? I can understand that for faster units, their might be a bit of a warning, say if hellions are approaching but c'mon... there's no logic, really, and the art from this direction feels disorganized) and nothing to do with the autocannon sound effect that was actually distinctive from gauss rifles in BW. :P

Ah well, rant over.

warrior6
05-01-2012, 11:44 AM
Female Ghosts*



MEH




Marines with different Graffiti (much like the Goliaths in the campaign)



wouldnt notice enough to care
93.65 % of the time



Female Zealots
or
Black Zealots**



no thank you. protoss are suppose to be manly race. their women are in the kitchen mostly except for a rare few. i want it kept that way.




*We've seen other in-game models for them they look just like regular ghosts but with hair. I think they can be immediately distinguishable as ghosts if they come out male or female.
**like this one: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/media/fanart/?view=&keywords=&page=1#/fanart-0150

again...meh

solidsamurai
05-02-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm guessing warrior6 doesn't feel like contributing to this conversation. Anyway.
----

So far, there isn't much reason to not have unique models except for the BS answer blizz has given - that players need to distinguish units by what they fucking look like on the battlefield. Even though the battlefield is confusing at times and it's hard to even get the mouse to tap-select a moving unit half-the-time for anyone that doesn't have strong wrists and fine motor skills, ie. myself; and also despite the fact that it's very easy to grow accustomed to unit voice responses, names and portraits (a female ghost doesn't need a different voice; it's just an aesthetic - also, it's fairly easy to accustom yourself to identifying unit body shapes alone, and a female ghost would just be a ghost with curves.

A more customizable UI would work too - maybe a dialogue text that pops up saying 'marine has been trained', ie.

The pros already grow accusomted to using hot keys for selecting buildings and moving all of their different armies with pinnacle response times, and female ghosts wouldn't look too much different from males (they'd have similar auras).

Can anyone say otherwise? :confused:


Marines with different Graffiti (much like the Goliaths in the campaign)Already exists. You can unlock race-specific emblems and swap them out in your profile.

The graffiti idea is a bit silly though. Blizz needn't code in random graffiti for every marine that spawns.

Sheliek
05-02-2012, 04:50 PM
How about, instead of custom graffiti, they just program the possiblity of other marine textures (only for the suit, not the weapons, and no model changes) such as Tychus' suit or Raynor's for marines. Same silhouette, size. At the very least, portioning out the various art on Tychus' suit might be good for customization.

solidsamurai
05-02-2012, 06:45 PM
Programming randomly generated textures is virtually the same thing as sticking emblems on the marines.

Think of it like a flow chart

Is Marine Built? - No - Nothing
|
Yes
|
Spawn Marine
|
Is Marine spawned - No - Error
|
Yes
|
Grab texture from marine model/texture database
|
Successful Grabbing? - No - Error or Spawn Marine at Default (I dunno computer, you fukkin decide here! Be a man and make your own decisions! =P)
|
Yes
|
Spawn marine with texture
-----

So yeah, they'd have to insert a whole new database in there, which increases the load. Knowing blizz, they'd never really bother with extra finangles, because - to be frank - they probably had to decide which finangles to include, from literally hundreds, if not thousands of ideas from the employees alone.

Since they like to prefer to keep things tight and not let it all get thrown in there with the basic development budget, they simply didn't provide for that.

That said, blizz could offer DLC for that sorta thing, provided it loads with your computer and not their server.


That would be insane.

Maybe just a toggled dialogue box that lists your entire army composition of units that are idle (and you can customize with units that aren't moving, units that aren't attacking, holding position (note that siege mode counts as holding position), patrolling, etc.) - which would help you identify which ones aren't currently selected. The toggle wouldn't be immediately on when the game loads.

Currently, the drag-select system seems rather moot, since you can just drag select everything.