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mr. peasant
10-27-2011, 10:16 PM
I'm surprised no one's posted a thread to discuss the details revealed during the two mod panels from this year's Blizzcon. Hence, I figure it might as well be me. So far, videos of the panels can be found here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWymJSal9IM) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3R6ZqVQ3WE), with SC:Legacy's write-up on it can be found here (http://sclegacy.com/news/23-sc2/1092-blizzcon-2011-starcraft-ii-mod-and-blizzdota-panel). Also, just to be clear, I wasn't at Blizzcon and so have yet had a chance to actually see the game first hand, let alone play it. So, everything I say here is based purely on observation and speculation, and could very well be utter bull crap.

Now that that's out of the way, one of the things mentioned was that there are 16 heroes in the current build. The one version available at Blizzcon featured 12 of them - namely Arthas, Stitches, Muradin, Uther, Thrall, Tassadar, Nova, Kerrigan, Zeratul, Warfield, Za'Gara and the Witchdoctor. Based on what was shown and talked about, I suspect the remaining heroes to be Illidan, Sylvanas, Murloc Marine and either the Blademaster or the Goblin Tinker (depending whether they included him in the 16 they talked about). Personally, my money is on the latter with the roles being as follows:

Illidan - tank
Sylvanas - siege
Murloc Marine - DPS
Goblin Tinker - support

If true, I have to say that the roster might be a little Warcraft heavy (9 1/2 heroes), with a very poor showing by the Diablo franchise (a mere 1 hero). Which at first seems strange seeing as how Diablo III is Blizzard's next big project. But on the other hand, revealing the identities of its 'iconic characters' at this point might be too spoiler-ish.

Going back to the roster above, excluding the speculated heroes, I've noticed a franchise divide in the allocation of heroes between the various hero types. More specifically, Warcraft characters tend to dominate the tank and support roles while Starcraft characters tend to feature in DPS and siege roles. Ideally, I would have preferred to see the characters distributed more evenly.

Another thing the developers talked about was trying to fuse the worlds together. Regarding this, there is visibly a lot of incorporation of Starcraft's futuristic setting with the Warcraft characters/units but not much of vice versa, and even less influence from Diablo. This, coupled with the Warcraft-heavy roster and creeps unfortunately makes Blizzard DotA feel more like Warcraft DotA. Perhaps, subsequent versions will manage to bring more Starcraft and (more pressingly) Diablo heroes into the fold.

But while we're on the topic of fusing influences, how can this be improved? One thing that I think would be pretty cool (and could see happening) is them making Illidan's demon form (http://www.wowwiki.com/Metamorphosis) be Diablo (http://www.diablowiki.net/Diablo) (instead of some generic demon). Another would be to give Tassadar Medivh's (http://www.wowwiki.com/Medivh) outfit (http://images.wikia.com/wowwiki/images/a/a4/WarCraft_Samwise038c.jpg) (either as the default or as an alternate model) as a subtle nod to the fact they play similar roles in their respective stories - as prophetic spirits. Another, if somewhat slightly barbaric and/or out of character, idea would be for Warfield's Siege Tank to be decked out with dragon and/or orc skulls.

Speaking of Warfield, unless it's something that comes up in HotS, I think it's pretty clear that (in light of the Siege Tank) he is pretty much a nicer, less douchey version of Edmund Duke (which raises the question why isn't he the Siege Tank driver?). But that's straying off-topic and a discussion for another day.

Well, that's all I have to say for now. Anyone else like to share their thoughts on DotA? How else can Blizzard better integrate the various universes? Anyone who's played care to drop their two cents on the game?

SoFool
10-29-2011, 03:20 AM
I think it's a pretty cool idea to have all the blizz heroes and villains duking each other, but I wish blizz would change the name dota to something else...it's too "commercialized" (even though it's free)

Todie
10-29-2011, 05:10 AM
ve come to surrender to the notion of this type of game having ist worth. though i refuse to ever pick up LoL etc..

.. i think its cool that blizzard are making their own and i bet tis less likely to lag as badly as Sotis frequrntly does (ive given up on playing it completely becasue of that)

.. on the otehr hand, blizz had a similar project for a wc3 map that was Dota style, adn although creative, i dont think it ever meassured up to DotA popularity.


its by no emans sth that gets me excited, but ill probably play it off and on once released.

Alar
10-29-2011, 03:02 PM
I think it looks pretty fun. I'll definitely play it a fair amount. Will I play it as much as say, LoL? I doubt it, but I am interested if they'll leave it 'open' so people can tweak it... I'd love to see a Hero Arena with all the Blizz DotA champs.

Sheliek
10-29-2011, 03:43 PM
I think it looks pretty fun. I'll definitely play it a fair amount. Will I play it as much as say, LoL? I doubt it, but I am interested if they'll leave it 'open' so people can tweak it... I'd love to see a Hero Arena with all the Blizz DotA champs.

Some of the prospective heroes have me excited. Fenix? If he's in a dragoon, that model will be used in customs.

Duckyyy
10-29-2011, 03:58 PM
Illidan a tank ?!? wth....he should be DPS

mr. peasant
10-29-2011, 04:22 PM
I think it's a pretty cool idea to have all the blizz heroes and villains duking each other, but I wish blizz would change the name dota to something else...it's too "commercialized" (even though it's free)

I think it has to do with name recognition. Besides, 'Dota' (as opposed to DotA) gets treated as a genre these days.



Some of the prospective heroes have me excited. Fenix? If he's in a dragoon, that model will be used in customs.

Unfortunately, I don't think Fenix is a lock at the moment. Though, I assume we will eventually see an official dragoon model by the time Legacy of the Void rolls out. So, there's always that.



Illidan a tank ?!? wth....he should be DPS

It was based on my speculated list of heroes, and the assumption that there would be 4 heroes for each hero type (akin to the demo, which had 3 of each type). Of the four heroes identified, Illidan best suited the tank role.

Sheliek
10-29-2011, 04:47 PM
Unfortunately, I don't think Fenix is a lock at the moment. Though, I assume we will eventually see an official dragoon model by the time Legacy of the Void rolls out. So, there's always that.

Indeed. But any extra models we can get our hands on is a plus. A regular dragoon plus a hero one would be very nice.

I know it's not a lock, but hey. Worth hoping for.

sandwich_bird
10-29-2011, 04:50 PM
It looks better than dota 2 imo but I'm not a fan of those kind of games. I think they're pretty unbalanced.

If they're gonna make Blizzard's characters duke it out, I'd rather see them make a fighting game.

mr. peasant
10-29-2011, 05:00 PM
It looks better than dota 2 imo but I'm not a fan of those kind of games. I think they're pretty unbalanced.

If they're gonna make Blizzard's characters duke it out, I'd rather see them make a fighting game.

Like a Blizzard version of Super Smash Bros.? :D

Twilice
10-29-2011, 05:14 PM
It looks better than dota 2 imo but I'm not a fan of those kind of games. I think they're pretty unbalanced.

If they're gonna make Blizzard's characters duke it out, I'd rather see them make a fighting game.

Hf balancing +100 heroes.

It's not balanced hero vs hero. It's balanced more around, you could call them builds, which is rather a fault in player mentality. And it's exactly the same with lower levels of play in starcraft 2 as well.

When I play dota, it's not that I get the feeling that this and this hero is overpowered. One a sidenote, dota balancing is actually apart from the new content / remake old content stuff pretty similar to balancing like blizzard are. +1 armor there, -1 armor there.

sandwich_bird
10-29-2011, 08:29 PM
Like a Blizzard version of Super Smash Bros.? :D

lol when I was writing this, I was actually gonna say ''I'd rather see them make a super smash bross kind of game but with blizzard characters''.

It would be pretty nice!


It's not balanced hero vs hero. It's balanced more around, you could call them builds,

Which is why I don't like the game so much. If I'm to control one hero, I don't want my skill level to be evaluated by the way I build my hero but by the way I control my hero. There is some of that of course but the game is more centred around your overall strategy than pure reflex and combat skills imo.

Twilice
10-30-2011, 06:32 AM
That is not really what I meant, (I saw that I forgot a line of text, sorry about that)
I meant builds as a team, what goal do your team have with your 5 heroes. It's the same with a build in starcraft 2, what goal do you have with your build?

And what differs the best from the worse is usually the ability to see what can't be seen, fast reactions is not always better than slower reactions but better. Positioning is just as important in dota as it is in starcraft 2. Chasing a zerg player with a protoss will only get your stalkers surrounded. It's similar with dota, chasing a hero that seem almost dead might get you killed if he controls the hero or stall you long enough with better juking and map controlling. (sort of like phoenix vs muta controll, but it differs very much but it's the same that you have to outsmart your opponent)

The main difference is that it's a teamgame and what I meant is the buildup arround your team. I'm not saying that you have to like it, just that it's more balanced than you think (at least dota is, can't speak for lol/hon) and that is coming from a masters league starcraft 2 player in 1v1 that plays random.

I took a random video from today (skip the first minute of commercial)
http://www.playdota.com/videos/3818
It's a higher rate of seeing these "good moves" in dota than in starcraft 2, not because some heroes are imbalanced but a better knowledge and control is more awarded. Now again it might be a little more fun to watch starcraft 2 overall. Now I think dota is harder to learn the fundamental gameplay than in starcrat 2, but I still see dota as much more relaxed than starcraft 2.

DemolitionSquid
10-30-2011, 11:43 AM
The best thing Blizzard DOTA has going for it is its currently F2P with HotS. I expect DOTA 2 to do very well because of IceFrog's and Valves rep.

Duckyyy
10-30-2011, 12:12 PM
The best thing Blizzard DOTA has going for it is its currently F2P with HotS. I expect DOTA 2 to do very well because of IceFrog's and Valves rep.

Valve has a rep ?

DemolitionSquid
10-30-2011, 12:15 PM
Valve has a rep ?

Valve has rep. Tight rep with all da homies, bra.

TheEconomist
10-30-2011, 03:18 PM
F2P > P2P

Just ask the forum trolls.

Valve's DOTA has no chance.

QuesterPro
11-02-2011, 01:06 AM
Like a Blizzard version of Super Smash Bros.? :D

YES! xD hahahahaha!

But I LOVE the dota series! xD

(AoS, DotA, DotA Allstars, Hon, LoL, DOTA 2, and of cause Blizzard DOTA ^.^)

Zero
11-02-2011, 10:03 AM
It may be because of my being DOTA-newbish, but I had a hard time enjoying the game. My opponents would always seem to have the upper hand on me. I had played as Arthas for one game, and was raped the entire time. Despite being a tank, his attack is really weak in the beginning, and he has no considerable AOE attacks, especially toward the start. So I kept getting pwned by all of these better players with ranged and AOE attacks who were able to level up more quickly. And even a 2-level difference between heroes is significant. Once you fell behind a little bit, there was little hope of catching up. Even if you found a hero-less lane to level up a bit, your enemies are leveling up quicker due to ganging up on your teammates. I don't know, I know I'm far from experienced at DOTA, but I still think some tweaking needs to be done.

Crota
11-02-2011, 12:27 PM
As someone with some Dota Style gameplay experience and someone who was at BlizzCon I'll offer up my thoughts. The game is definitely much faster then any other Dota/Moba game I've played in the past. That being said, the game is still easy to learn but diffucult to master. I think some of the other players who were trying to test it out may have found that out the hard way. Being behind 2 levels in this version of dota is similar to be behind 4 levels in any current version. The games are so short that you should never get that far behind. Everytime I sat down with a new group of people, people were talking about LoL, HoN, and every other Dota clone out there so everyone had A LOT of experience.

They only showcased 12 heroes on the floor if I recall correctly but speaking with the lead 3d artist for StarCraft II, interview should but up shortly from LoA (Hope I didn't let the cat out of the bag on that one) there were plans to bring in more heroes as well. They couldn't do a straight port of the hero as the animation and color style is differnt for each IP. WarCraft much more Cartoonish, StarCraft having a lot of metal tones and dirty space while D3 has a lot more skin tones.

The game was fun and I'm interested to see what direction Blizzard will be taking it.

handclaw
11-02-2011, 01:37 PM
They only showcased 12 heroes on the floor if I recall correctly but speaking with the lead 3d artist for StarCraft II, interview should but up shortly from LoA (Hope I didn't let the cat out of the bag on that one) there were plans to bring in more heroes as well.

This is actually even mentioned in Blizzard's DotA FAQ as well.


We plan to add more heroes before we officially release Blizzard DOTA. One thing to keep in mind is that we want to ensure every hero and ability feels truly unique -- we want quality over quantity.

And also, they've shown already several heroes not in the Blizzcon Build like Illidan Stormrage or a Goblin Tinker, and mentioned that there is a huge variety of heroes they can use from their franchises... Several from Starcraft and Diablo (although the majority they've mentioned were still Warcraft ones)

Twilice
11-02-2011, 01:50 PM
Please don't call it moba, it makes my head hurt.
Call it arts/a-rts/action rts instead.

Jconant
11-03-2011, 03:53 AM
I'm curious what type of hero they are designing Illidan to be. In wc3 he played too much as melee assasin type character (mainly what the multiplayer demon hunter was) by comparison to what lore makes him out to be: a mage.

I'm hoping he turns out to be how blinkmage (wc3 dota) or kassadin (lol) plays; an anti mage caster that relies on mobility and quick bursts of spells/ melee strikes and specializes in dealing with spellcasters.

Duckyyy
11-03-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm curious what type of hero they are designing Illidan to be. In wc3 he played too much as melee assasin type character (mainly what the multiplayer demon hunter was)

o.O Thats because Illidan is a Demon Hunter. He's not a Anti-magic hero like the hero portrayed in DoTA but a agile melee fighter with the ability too infuse himself with demonic powers too become more powerful due too the consuming of the skull of gul'dan.

If anything the Scourge sided illidan hero *Forgot his name* is a more lore friendly portrayal.

mr. peasant
11-03-2011, 01:50 PM
I'm curious what type of hero they are designing Illidan to be. In wc3 he played too much as melee assasin type character (mainly what the multiplayer demon hunter was) by comparison to what lore makes him out to be: a mage.

More evidence BlizzDota Illidan will be a tank. Because he's been everything else already. :D

In all seriousness, I hope that Blizzard is able to reflect the characters' lore in their respective gameplay/abilities/mechanics. For instance, Illidan should have the Ghost's old 'Energy Radar' passive ability since his 'eyes' are supposed to be able to sense all forms of magic. Another one would be for Arthas to be able to summon a dead enemy hero or lengthen the revive time of enemy heroes he kills since Frostmourne traps the souls of those it slays.

Jconant
11-03-2011, 03:14 PM
Illidan's "gift" from Sargaras enables him to sense things magical in nature, and track em.

Ducky, Illidan may be a demon hunter, but the function of the demon hunter hero in WC3's nightelf army doesn't reflect Illidan, his personal strengths or how he chooses to fight.

Reading outside the games that features illidan, key storyline feats he accomplishes in warcraft 3, fight mechanics players have to be wary of in world of warcraft, what he invests his interest in and points to this: he is a sorcerer above anything else.

Aldrius
11-07-2011, 12:59 PM
Well Demon Hunters are kind of sorcerers anyway. Characters aren't bound to simply be mages/priests/paladins, there's some crossover and such.

Jconant
11-07-2011, 06:21 PM
Would they introduce tyrael as a hero?

mr. peasant
11-08-2011, 07:24 AM
Would they introduce tyrael as a hero?

I don't think there's anything definite or even tangible at the moment (they said the Witch Doctor was the first Diablo character to make it into Dota). That said, I'd imagine that Tyrael and Diablo would be high priority/preference for being included due to their iconic status and to push the new game to a wider audience.



Well Demon Hunters are kind of sorcerers anyway. Characters aren't bound to simply be mages/priests/paladins, there's some crossover and such.

I think it's quite interesting (or perhaps shows their shared origin as characters made by Blizzard) that both, the Demon Hunter from Warcraft and the Demon Hunter from Diablo, are described as characters who hunt down enemy demons while utilising demonic powers against their foes.

Jconant
11-08-2011, 10:30 PM
Blizzard has always had some sort of crossover of ideas from one game genre to another. Diablo 2 skills crossed over into warcraft 3 spells, and we're seeing a lot of cool spell mechanics re-emerging into Diablo 3 (starcraft 2's time bubble for example)

Alar
11-16-2011, 11:56 PM
Protoss-Enhanced Tyrael? Zerg-infested Diablo? I would like to see both of those... even if it's only minor armor changes and slight physical differences.

Terrasqueel
12-08-2011, 11:46 PM
I wonder if each hero will have their own unique mount. It would give them a reason to put Raynor back on his vulture if he gets included in DotA at some point.

Sheliek
12-09-2011, 01:55 AM
Fenix as a zealot, then mount is a dragoon. Noms.

TheEconomist
12-09-2011, 01:59 PM
Let poor Fenix rest in peace. The poor kid's been resurrected so many times its a tragedy.

Arkalis
12-09-2011, 03:07 PM
Let poor Fenix rest in peace. The poor kid's been resurrected so many times its a tragedy.

Tassadar Ghost

Make it happen

TheEconomist
12-09-2011, 07:15 PM
*travels back in time and puts Tassadar's Ghost into SC2 SP*

Viola!

Asfastasican
02-29-2012, 05:14 AM
Blizzard DotA is just a fun project for Blizzard to kill time with. Most conspiracy theory guys could even argue that they are just spending a tiny bit of resources to make it, just because of them challenging Valve's trademark on the phrase "Dota." If Blizzard fakes or makes a half-ass attempt at making a true DotA map, it will make them look better when making the challenge claim. Not that any judge would care, but it can help their PR in a subtle way.

Besides that sad PR disaster and Blizzard's complete incompetence in not hiring a team to make the actual DotA game or trademark it, Blizzard has never made any successful custom maps. Their custom maps are just fun pet projects that the devs made to goof off and showcase features of their respective map editors for each game. Even when Blizzard used to make custom default maps people could play Melee on, they never took the maps seriously themselves.

The only truly great Official Blizzard custom map Blizzard has ever released was Skibi's TD, and they didn't even make that map themselves. A married couple did. All Blizzard did was put an official tag on it.

To anybody interested in playing it or spending any time covering it, you're not going to get much of anything. You could even argue it's still just a hollow product that was made just to entertain people at Blizzcon solely for Blizzcon content.

The_Blade
02-29-2012, 09:25 AM
I understand why Blizzard or Valve wants the Dota name on their dota-like map, but I don't see why either Blizzard or Valve rightfully deserves said name. DotA originated on Warcraft III, but that's as far as it goes for Blizzard. A friend even made the argument, at Blizzcon, that Blizzard's DoTA should be called something else because it has changed so much from the original concept.