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TheEconomist
05-12-2009, 10:23 AM
http://starcraft.incgamers.com/blog/comments/protoss-and-terran-tech-trees/

I post this not because it's beta news or because it's important. I post this because there seems to be some people who aren't up on the latest tech tree so I figured this might help discussion a little bit.

-- A Zerg tech tree is expected soon and I will edit that in when it's available.

Perfecttear
05-12-2009, 10:36 AM
An alternative tech tree, with the zerg one :)
Protoss
http://communitystarcraft.com/images/techtrees/protosstechtree.jpg
terran
http://communitystarcraft.com/images/techtrees/terrantechtree.jpg
zerg
http://communitystarcraft.com/images/techtrees/zergtechtree.jpg

But it looks your is more up to date. Thanks for posting .

TheEconomist
05-12-2009, 10:58 AM
This tech tree is supposed to be a recent community project to update the tech tree, so, yeah it should be the most up-to-date tech tree on the internet at the moment.

I've seen a lot of posts recently where someone was judging a game play idea on an old tech tree so I figured this might help.

mr. peasant
05-12-2009, 11:24 AM
One think I notice about the tech trees are how, particularly for the later tiers, most of the units are immediately available as soon as the production building is made. This is glaringly apparent where both, the Factory and Starport each have only one (out of five for the Starport, mind you) unit requires further tech buildings. It should be worth pointing out that the Terrans have significantly fewer tech buildings than the Protoss (4.5 versus 6).

I think the Terrans should get at least one additional tech building for their Starport buildings. An alternative would be for the the Medivac and Raven to also require the Ghost Academy (just renamed the Academy) just so that they can't get almost full air on their third building. The reason I chose the Medivac and Raven are because those two best fit it lore-wise since it makes sense they are operated by educated personnel.

Zabimaru
05-12-2009, 11:38 AM
Just wondering if you've included add-ons in that mr. peasant? If that makes much of a differnce at all..?

mr. peasant
05-12-2009, 11:43 AM
There's only one add-on, namely the Tech Lab which would essentially be a small increase in cost for the production building in question. It's the 0.5 I added to my total tally.

areese87
05-12-2009, 11:53 AM
The Terran tech tree excites me. It really made me dig the innovativeness and creativity of the add-on system that further seperates the 3 races to create some really unique production and tech tree ideas. Can't wait to see this in action.

Just to make sure: Reactors only work for the base units, yes? Since Medevacs and Reapers don't require tech labs, I wasn't sure if they might be Reactor-affected.

unentschieden
05-12-2009, 12:02 PM
One think I notice about the tech trees are how, particularly for the later tiers, most of the units are immediately available as soon as the production building is made. This is glaringly apparent where both, the Factory and Starport each have only one (out of five for the Starport, mind you) unit requires further tech buildings. It should be worth pointing out that the Terrans have significantly fewer tech buildings than the Protoss (4.5 versus 6).

I think the Terrans should get at least one additional tech building for their Starport buildings. An alternative would be for the the Medivac and Raven to also require the Ghost Academy (just renamed the Academy) just so that they can't get almost full air on their third building. The reason I chose the Medivac and Raven are because those two best fit it lore-wise since it makes sense they are operated by educated personnel.

Terrans have plenty economic advantages. As mentioned they need less Techbuildings and each of them is singular (Both Protoss Templars need 2 Techbuildings). There is no lynchpin Techbuilding (unless some requirements are misrepresented), Each Production Building is provided by the previous version ergo redundant dependencys whereas the Protoss are banned from expanding robots/air if they lose their (one?) Cybernetics core.

Also the Terrans have the Reactor which acts as 1/3rd of a Production building. Though limited in some aspects it allows them to halve Marine Production capacity and Trade it for Hellion or Viking Capacity. (On top of that the Addons apear to be salvagable). It doesnīt increase their TOTAL Production capacity but lets them modify it easier.


Personally I like it like that, Terrans are big on multipurposeness.

Nicol Bolas
05-12-2009, 12:29 PM
An alternative would be for the the Medivac and Raven to also require the Ghost Academy (just renamed the Academy) just so that they can't get almost full air on their third building.

First, giving the Medivac any prerequisite hurts the unit. It should be easily acquired; that way, if you're going for a primarily infantry strategy, you can easily get healing without having to invest in a bunch of extra stuff. You already need a Factory + StarPort to get Medivacs, when you're probably going for a strategy that doesn't use a Factory. Forcing you to build a Ghost Academy is just making the Medivac even harder to get.

Second, what's the difference between the NightHawk having the Fusion Core as a prerequisite and the Ghost Academy? Indeed, having the latter as a prereq is silly, because you can have already built it by the time you get to a StarPort. The point of a prereq is to make it harder to get a unit, not easier.

mr. peasant
05-12-2009, 12:51 PM
First, giving the Medivac any prerequisite hurts the unit. It should be easily acquired; that way, if you're going for a primarily infantry strategy, you can easily get healing without having to invest in a bunch of extra stuff. You already need a Factory + StarPort to get Medivacs, when you're probably going for a strategy that doesn't use a Factory. Forcing you to build a Ghost Academy is just making the Medivac even harder to get.

Second, what's the difference between the NightHawk having the Fusion Core as a prerequisite and the Ghost Academy? Indeed, having the latter as a prereq is silly, because you can have already built it by the time you get to a StarPort. The point of a prereq is to make it harder to get a unit, not easier.

Now, if players are already going to build the Academy before the Starport, how does this hurt the player or the game's current mechanics? It doesn't. Where this does have an affect is on players who haven't built the Academy, i.e. those who're rushing straight for air units. For them, delaying their access to their full armada seems appropriate. On the other hand, if the player is focusing on infantry, don't you think it's likely that the Academy is something s/he would want to build anyway?

Koenig
05-12-2009, 01:25 PM
LOL @ rAfinery

Nicol Bolas
05-12-2009, 01:25 PM
Now, if players are already going to build the Academy before the Starport, how does this hurt the player or the game's current mechanics?

It costs money for no real reason.

Also, it really goes against the grain of the Terran tech tree. Factory units require either the Factory alone, Factory+TechLab, or tech buildings that require the Factory (Armory). The same goes for the Barracks and StarPort. StarPort units require the StarPort, StarPort+TechLab, or tech buildings that need the StarPort.

Adding this requirement is tying a StarPort unit to a Barracks building.

Aldrius
05-12-2009, 01:54 PM
Just to make sure: Reactors only work for the base units, yes? Since Medevacs and Reapers don't require tech labs, I wasn't sure if they might be Reactor-affected.

All the reactor does is adds a production queue.

So any unit that can be built while a reactor is attached can take advantage of that second queue.

I wonder how accurate these tech-trees really are... our information is pretty out of date. I'm sure the Protoss tech-tree is fairly accurate (it hasn't been changed since the game was announced almost...) but the Terran? Hmm...

ArcherofAiur
05-12-2009, 02:47 PM
QUESTION

umm what is the Disruptor?

Im guessing the nullifier has a new name
http://starcraft.incgamers.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2481&size=big&cat=

Aldrius
05-12-2009, 02:57 PM
QUESTION

umm what is the Disruptor?

Im guessing the nullifier has a new name
http://starcraft.incgamers.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2481&size=big&cat=

Could be a new name, or could just be the german name translated.

Like the Raven...

They might have changed it, but that seems like such a minor change...

MattII
05-12-2009, 03:14 PM
Interesting, I thought the Hydralisk was down at tier 1.5, wouldn't that count as Hatchery level rather than Lair level?

mr. peasant
05-12-2009, 03:16 PM
It costs money for no real reason.

Also, it really goes against the grain of the Terran tech tree. Factory units require either the Factory alone, Factory+TechLab, or tech buildings that require the Factory (Armory). The same goes for the Barracks and StarPort. StarPort units require the StarPort, StarPort+TechLab, or tech buildings that need the StarPort.

Adding this requirement is tying a StarPort unit to a Barracks building.

This is precisely my point. As it stands, there's only one tech building that needs the Starport (a trend I noted with other higher tier production buildings). But in the Starport's case, it unlocks 4 out of 5 units. By building one building they gain access to 80% of their air fleet, consisting of a ATA specialist, a cloaked ATG specialist, a transport/healer and a mobile detector/spell caster. That's a lot for just one building.

That's why I originally suggested that the Starport could stand to receive a second tech building. I only suggested requiring the Academy as an alternative in case, for whatever reason, the Terrans are maxed out on the number of buildings they're allowed.

As for tying a Starport unit to a Barracks unit, that's already the case with the Medivac thanks to its healing ability which only works on organic units (i.e. only Barracks units). You're paying for the ability (per Medivac, I might add) whether you use it or not.

Nicol Bolas
05-12-2009, 03:26 PM
But in the Starport's case, it unlocks 4 out of 5 units. By building one building they gain access to 80% of their air fleet, consisting of a ATA specialist, a cloaked ATG specialist, a transport/healer and a mobile detector/spell caster. That's a lot for just one building.

Actually, that's not true; you only get 3. You need a Fusion Core to get the NightHawk and BCs.

Further, all of the upgrades for them are researched at the Fusion Core. That means the 3 BC upgrades, BC energy, the 2-3 NightHawk upgrades, NightHawk energy, Banshee cloak and Banshee energy are all upgraded from that one building. So if you're going to be serious about StarPort-level tech, you need quite a few Fusion Cores.


that's already the case with the Medivac thanks to its healing ability which only works on organic units (i.e. only Barracks units). You're paying for the ability (per Medivac, I might add) whether you use it or not.

Except that the ability doesn't cost anything. And generally, going for Medivacs + infantry doesn't involve Ghosts.

mr. peasant
05-12-2009, 03:40 PM
Actually, that's not true; you only get 3. You need a Fusion Core to get the NightHawk and BCs.

Where'd you get that info from? Neither the OP's link nor Starcraft Wikia list this. Both state that the Raven/Nighthawk only requires the Tech Lab.


Further, all of the upgrades for them are researched at the Fusion Core. That means the 3 BC upgrades, BC energy, the 2-3 NightHawk upgrades, NightHawk energy, Banshee cloak and Banshee energy are all upgraded from that one building. So if you're going to be serious about StarPort-level tech, you need quite a few Fusion Cores.

If this is the case, it makes it all the more problematic since taking out the tech building doesn't give you the benefit of disabling the opponent from producing its corresponding unit since there are multiple of them.


Except that the ability doesn't cost anything. And generally, going for Medivacs + infantry doesn't involve Ghosts.

While there's not 'cost' attached to research it, the value of its healing ability has already been factored into the unit's price. Do you honestly believe that if Medivacs were swapped back for Dropships, its cost would remain exactly the same? And yes, I'm aware it's the same cost as the SC1 Dropship, but that doesn't mean its SC2 counterpart is the same cost.

MattII
05-12-2009, 03:47 PM
There appear to be a few minor disagreements , like for the Protoss sc.com (starcraftcommunity.com) says you need the Tewmplar Archives for the Mothership, but s.i.com (starcraft.incgamers.com) says you don't, for the Terrans, sc.com says the Merc Compound requires the Factory, while s.i.com says only the Barracks. I do wonder about sc.com's Zerg tech tree, Because they've got the Hydralisk Den at Lair level, and the Nydus Hetwork apparently at Hive level.

DemolitionSquid
05-12-2009, 04:33 PM
No one has the right stats right now. I think the topic needs to be discussed in a more general manner.

Nicol Bolas
05-12-2009, 04:54 PM
Where'd you get that info from?

I'm pretty sure it worked this way at BlizzCon. And I couldn't follow the link from SC2Wiki to their evidence of it being built from just a TechLab.


If this is the case, it makes it all the more problematic since taking out the tech building doesn't give you the benefit of disabling the opponent from producing its corresponding unit since there are multiple of them.

First, this is a very rarely employed tactic. Second, it never worked on the Terrans in SC1, since most of their tech came from add-ons, not external buildings. Third, when it did work, it was usually on the initial research run (taking out a Science Facility before Irradiate finishes researching), not after the point when they have 3 of them down.

Fourth, there's a reason why high-tech units are high-tech. Either you spend lots of (ultimately useless) money to throw down several Fusion Cores to quickly research everything you need, or you do it sequentially and take a while to get it done. I like that choice.


Do you honestly believe that if Medivacs were swapped back for Dropships, its cost would remain exactly the same? And yes, I'm aware it's the same cost as the SC1 Dropship, but that doesn't mean its SC2 counterpart is the same cost.

Did some kind of reverse inflation hit SC2, making minerals worth more in SC2 than SC1 ;)

Blizzard specifically stated that they went out of their way to make the mining and mineral influx rates between the two games as similar as possible. So if the cost didn't change between the two games, then either Blizzard felt that transports were undervalued in SC1 (and considering that every transport got a new special ability without a cost increase, that's entirely possible) or the healing is free. Or both. After all, the cost didn't change when the DropShip became the Medivac in their builds.

unentschieden
05-12-2009, 05:25 PM
First, this is a very rarely employed tactic. Second, it never worked on the Terrans in SC1, since most of their tech came from add-ons, not external buildings. Third, when it did work, it was usually on the initial research run (taking out a Science Facility before Irradiate finishes researching), not after the point when they have 3 of them down.

Fourth, there's a reason why high-tech units are high-tech. Either you spend lots of (ultimately useless) money to throw down several Fusion Cores to quickly research everything you need, or you do it sequentially and take a while to get it done. I like that choice.


Nothing in SC:BW really suits a hit and run against Buildings. Itīs just A LOT easier to go for the Mineral line. Still, tohave the strategic option would be nice. Some units have Boni gainst Buildings donīt they?



Did some kind of reverse inflation hit SC2, making minerals worth more in SC2 than SC1 ;)

Blizzard specifically stated that they went out of their way to make the mining and mineral influx rates between the two games as similar as possible. So if the cost didn't change between the two games, then either Blizzard felt that transports were undervalued in SC1 (and considering that every transport got a new special ability without a cost increase, that's entirely possible) or the healing is free. Or both. After all, the cost didn't change when the DropShip became the Medivac in their builds.

Cost is based on relative Value. The dropship in itself would have been simply inferior to the comparable units in the other races. That could also be fine if the Dropship would have been cheaper or been a Racial disatvantage(The most obvious racial disatvantage is the Protoss inability to restore HP, they make up with that by having the highest relative HP+Shield values between the races). The latter is especially unattractive since "Dropship-Micro" is actually wanted as Design Choice.

MattII
05-12-2009, 05:32 PM
Ultralisks and Banelings have bonusses vs buildings (the Ultralisk has a special head-butt attack anyway), and while the same can't really be said for Terran or Protoss, Reaper D8 and the Void Ray ought to work especially well.

Pandonetho
05-12-2009, 05:38 PM
I wonder how well D8 charges will really work on their own against workers. A decent player will run all his workers before the charges explode, killing practically no workers. Maybe it'd be more wise to just chuck them at the main resourcing building.

Or... in a team game, do the disrupter force field trick to block exits, and then D8 charge them. That will be glorious (and require some intense coordination).

SpiderBrigade
05-12-2009, 08:15 PM
I wonder how well D8 charges will really work on their own against workers. A decent player will run all his workers before the charges explode, killing practically no workers. Maybe it'd be more wise to just chuck them at the main resourcing buildingI think what you want to do is either, yes, target the resource building (although I don't know if you will be able to jump in enough reapers to actually take it out) or alternately, toss the charges along the escape route for the workers. In other words they have to run away because Reapers will be good at killing them...but you can anticipate where they will try to go and pop the D8 charges there.

edit: Plus, either way you are seriously disrupting gathering which can be worth it by itself...any killed gatherers are bonus really.

Nicol Bolas
05-12-2009, 08:27 PM
Still, tohave the strategic option would be nice. Some units have Boni gainst Buildings donīt they?

Air-based Protoss strategies could easily go for a double-Cybernetics core so that they can upgrade air attack and armor simultaneously. Doubling-down on tech buildings is nothing new.

I will say this: it is strange to have so many research options coming out of one building. Maybe they'll add two buildings, one for the NightHawk and its upgrades and one for the BC, BC upgrades, and Banshee upgrades.

unentschieden
05-14-2009, 12:58 AM
Air-based Protoss strategies could easily go for a double-Cybernetics core so that they can upgrade air attack and armor simultaneously. Doubling-down on tech buildings is nothing new.

I will say this: it is strange to have so many research options coming out of one building. Maybe they'll add two buildings, one for the NightHawk and its upgrades and one for the BC, BC upgrades, and Banshee upgrades.

Well Iīd say that there need to be enough options that multiple Techbuildings of the same kind are actually viable. Iīm somewhat peeved at 20 Starports Building Battlecruisers based one one Facility, but that is more a personal issue. Iīd for example like a non-research occupation for these buildings.

Norfindel
05-15-2009, 01:17 PM
It's strange to have a different building for High and Dark Templars. I wonder if it's worth most of the time to build Dark Templars instead of High Templars. Why not just leave the Citadel of Adun there, and then place a Twilight Archives there that allows creation of both Templars?
I don't know if i like the "Null Circuit" name too much. It doesn't sound good, IMHO.

It's me, or the Orbital Command does look almost exactly like an unupgraded CC? Shouldn't it be more obvious?
With the Ghost Academy directly after Barracks, it seems like Nukes will be really early, but of course, they would need Cloaking to be effective.
The Thor requires Tech Lab and... the Armory. Next name change will probably say Goliath 2.0 :rolleyes:.

Nicol Bolas
05-15-2009, 01:45 PM
The Thor requires Tech Lab and... the Armory.

Which is how it has always been ever since it was no longer produced by SCVs.

Norfindel
05-15-2009, 03:33 PM
Which is how it has always been ever since it was no longer produced by SCVs.
So? What's the problem? I'm just taking the chance to say that taking a late game damage soaker and make it some sort of super-Goliath isn't too interesting.
Giving a ground unit a lot of anti-air range was already done with the Goliath, and it wasn't interesting for gameplay. Such a kind of splash damage was already used for units like the Valkyrie and the Corsair, which totally raped Light air units, which isn't fun, either, and it would be worse with this kind of range.
So, why not give this unit a ground attack only, and some interesting abilities, like Defensive Matrix to aid it's role as a damage soaker. Hell, they're so fat that they could even obscure the battlefield, leaving the units behind inside the fog of war, unless spotted by the enemy. They could also have Drop Pods filled with Marines, that would be usefull to attack enemy Siege Tanks directly, by landing the Drop Pods next to them, or you could use them to raid an enemy base.

unentschieden
05-15-2009, 05:10 PM
The problem is that there is no aggro system in SC2. Why would anyone target the damagesponge first? Terrans are the Glasscannons of SC. They are the ones with pure ranged attacks, the highest amount of active abilities and the loads of AoEs. Thats what was so exciting about the initial Thor - it went against the racial concept. Unfortunately thats also why it had to change.

Nicol Bolas
05-15-2009, 05:56 PM
Why would anyone target the damagesponge first?

Because:

1: it's the one in range.

2: it will kill you if you don't.

3: your units automatically target the first thing that comes into range, so at least the first round of your fire will go after it.

MattII
05-15-2009, 06:14 PM
4. It's slaughtering you Mutalisks and Corruptors.

mr. peasant
05-15-2009, 06:19 PM
Because:

1: it's the one in range.

2: it will kill you if you don't.

3: your units automatically target the first thing that comes into range, so at least the first round of your fire will go after it.

Also, in the case of Thors and other Terran units (which are ranged) versus non-Terran units that are melee (or just shorter ranged), the Thors form a protective wall thanks to its size, preventing the opposing units from reaching said 'glass cannon' units.

Norfindel
05-15-2009, 06:25 PM
Why would anyone target the damagesponge first?
I think it's something like this: units are biased to shoot the higher damage unit first (in their range). That's why Ultra+Ling works so well, nobody is shooting at the Zerglings that are really dealing the heavy damage. The damage done by the Ultralisks in comparison is laughable.
A damage soaker forces you to constantly focus fire on the weaker units, as they're the ones dealing the most damage.
In the case of the Thor and the Siege Tanks, the Tanks are probably out of sight from your units.

unentschieden
05-15-2009, 06:54 PM
I think it's something like this: units are biased to shoot the higher damage unit first (in their range).
Initially Units fire at the first unit that comes into range. After that the Targeting algorythm kicks in and selects the unit that TAKES the most damage. If you leave targeting to the computer the Thor would be the LAST unit being shoot at. Your only chance is to send in Thors first and be done before your spearhead dies (or the enemy player has time to retarget). Thats how Ultra+Zergling actually work.


In the case of the Thor and the Siege Tanks, the Tanks are probably out of sight from your units.

The point of the current Thor is that BOTH are out of the range of enemy units. Siegetanks have still the highest AG Range and Thor right now the highest AA range.

Nicol Bolas
05-15-2009, 07:42 PM
Initially Units fire at the first unit that comes into range. After that the Targeting algorythm kicks in and selects the unit that TAKES the most damage. If you leave targeting to the computer the Thor would be the LAST unit being shoot at.

That's totally untrue. If you leave units alone, they will target the unit they started targeting after that. Now, once that unit is dead, they will switch to something else. But if that unit has lots of Hp, it's going to take a long time for them to retarget.


The point of the current Thor is that BOTH are out of the range of enemy units.

If you're using a Thor to meatshield for your STs, they work best as both meatshields and spotters. That is, they should be engaging enemy units towards the extremes of the ST's range. That way, they can use their large bodies to make it more difficult if not impossible to get around them. At the very least, your Thors should be engaging enemy far enough away from the STs that the enemy can't shoot them.

unentschieden
05-15-2009, 08:10 PM
If you leave units alone, they will target the unit they started targeting after that.


What exactly do you mean with that? I have yet to see units retarget from a unit they didnīt kill yet if itīs that what you mean.

Nicol Bolas
05-15-2009, 08:14 PM
What exactly do you mean with that?

Yeah, I should probably try that again in English:

If you leave units alone, they will keep targeting the unit they started with until it isn't there anymore.

unentschieden
05-16-2009, 04:41 AM
Yeah, I should probably try that again in English:

If you leave units alone, they will keep targeting the unit they started with until it isn't there anymore.

No doubt. That is what I said. Maybe I should have made it clearer, the point the targeting algorythm "kicks in" is when the attacking unit no longer has a valid target. Most of the time due to destruction but might also be burrow or something.

If there is a meatshield it somehow needs to enshure that it actually gets shot at over the other guys. Ultralisks get a speed upgrade so they "come in first". Otherwise youīd make shure that they were always in front manually and slow down your whole swarm in the process.

I just donīt see something like that on the Thor. Damage potentional alone works when targeting is mainly a burden of the Player, like in WC3. In SC:BW you are busy with positioning and by the time you are done with that the fight is halfway over.

If the Thor is meant to be a meatshield it either needs to be at least the same movement speed than your fastest (ground) unit or a mechanic that enshures Bulletcatching "artificially", like a Taunt or a magnetic field like that one C&C3 Cruiser has.

ElemenT
05-16-2009, 06:21 AM
we have published zerg tech tree

http://www.starcraft2.net.pl/portal/sc2/1/546/Drzewko_rozwoju_Zergow.html

and previous one http://www.starcraft2.net.pl/portal/sc2/1/540/Drzewka_rozwoju_Terran_i_Protossow.html

TheEconomist
05-16-2009, 08:50 AM
Zerg Tech Tree was released:

http://www.starcraft2.net.pl/portal/sc2/41/545/Drzewko_technologiczne.html

Aldrius
05-16-2009, 09:36 AM
Hm, the Zerg tech-tree isn't as accurate as the Protoss and Terran tech trees.

Norfindel
05-16-2009, 10:10 AM
If the Thor is meant to be a meatshield it either needs to be at least the same movement speed than your fastest (ground) unit or a mechanic that enshures Bulletcatching "artificially", like a Taunt or a magnetic field like that one C&C3 Cruiser has.
Why? You just send the Thor first and keep the rest of your units away. When everybody is shooting at the Thor, you send the other units.
The bad thing about the Thor, is that i don't see it resisting enough under Tank fire. The Ultralisk has 150% the amount of HP, and i think we can all agree in that the Thor looks heavier.


Zerg Tech Tree was released:

http://www.starcraft2.net.pl/portal/sc2/41/545/Drzewko_technologiczne.html
Shouldn't the Hydralisk be lower tech by now?

unentschieden
05-16-2009, 10:20 AM
Why? You just send the Thor first and keep the rest of your units away. When everybody is shooting at the Thor, you send the other units.
The bad thing about the Thor, is that i don't see it resisting enough under Tank fire. The Ultralisk has 150% the amount of HP, and i think we can all agree in that the Thor looks heavier.

Right now the Thor isnīt a meatshield, itīs Anti-air, especially "light air" which has a habit to come in stacks (hence the AoE). Itīs about as "Tanky" as the Battlecruiser. The HP more a result of itīs position in the Tech tree and the unit cost than itīs role.

Terrans simply arenīt about Damage migation, for them its about damage prevention. They have Ghosts with snipe and EMP to shut down casters. They have above sight ranged attackers. They have defensive drones. They have Marauders with a slowing attack and so on.

ElemenT
05-16-2009, 10:48 AM
Shouldn't the Hydralisk be lower tech by now?

I wasn't sure for 100% of it.
In Q&A 43 was said that hydralisk den returned to tier 1.5 but this makes tier 2 little empty of new units - only Lurker , Mutalisk and Corruptor.

I asked Karune and Xordiah to confirm correctness of our tech tree.

RainbowToeSocks
05-16-2009, 10:50 AM
I wasn't sure for 100% of it.
In Q&A 43 was said that hydralisk den returned to tier 1.5 but this makes tier 2 little empty of new units - only Lurker , Mutalisk and Corruptor.

I asked Karune and Xordiah to confirm correctness of our tech tree.

Im pretty sure lurker is tier 3 still. Dont you still need a Hive for it?

Nicol Bolas
05-16-2009, 12:52 PM
Right now the Thor isnīt a meatshield, itīs Anti-air, especially "light air" which has a habit to come in stacks (hence the AoE). Itīs about as "Tanky" as the Battlecruiser. The HP more a result of itīs position in the Tech tree and the unit cost than itīs role.

The Thor has many roles; it is a multifunction unit. And considering that until a few weeks ago, the Thor had "Mechanical Rebirth" as its special ability, and it has 400 Hp as well as a huge body, "meatshield" definitely fits its intended role. Also, I imagine it got a few more Hp once Rebirth was removed.

And it's "position in the tech tree" is Tier 2. What other 400 Hp units live in Tier 2? And it costs that much because it's 400 Hp; they could just as easily cut the Hp down to 150 and dramatically reduce its cost.


I asked Karune and Xordiah to confirm correctness of our tech tree.

No need for official confirmation: it's totally wrong. The Infestor Pit is the tech necessary for a Hive, not the Nydus Network. It's been that way since BlizzCon, and it was confirmed in BR2. They've already said that they're playing around with the Hydralisk's position on the tree, so that should at least be considered tentative. And the Lurker's been Tier 3 for a while, and while it's position might be changed to Tier 2, we have no information to say that it has.

I don't see the point of producing these "tech trees" on a game still in development.


In Q&A 43 was said that hydralisk den returned to tier 1.5 but this makes tier 2 little empty of new units - only Lurker , Mutalisk and Corruptor.

They're not going to have 4 Tier 1 Zerg units, so something was/will be moved up to Tier 2. And the Lurker, unless they moved it down, should be Tier 3. You also forgot the Infestor and the Overseer.